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THIS WEEK’S CHALLENGE: Probate Mastery’s top performers are challenged to create a list of “10 Probate FAQs' ' comprising the common questions and challenges people in probate have, and use this list as the basis for inbound marketing content.
Time Stamps (YouTube links):
00:00 What To Do If The Personal Representative Passes Away Before Probate Closes?
02:26 How To Win B2B Relationships With The BEST Attorneys In Your Market
9:51 How To Prospect Probate Leads That Are Already Closed to Find Private Capital
11:40 Prospecting Scripts for Foreclosure Leads
16:45 Why Foreclosures in 2021 and 2022 Will be Different Than 2008.
18:01 LIVE SCRIPTS ROLE PLAY: How to Cold Call Foreclosures and NOD Leads
35:46 How To Turn Every NOD Into A Deal: Roleplay Breakdown and Critique
38:18 Mail Marketing Ideas: Integrating Video Webinars With Mail Campaigns
40:06 How To Create Content With Probate FAQs and Quit Having The Same Conversations.
46:12 Building Purpose-Driven Communities for Lead Generation and Nurture
50:16; Yes, Inbound Content Marketing Is Worth It
54:33 Creative Financing: Using Novation Agreements When A Seller Wants The Zillow Price
Corey Takes 5 Listings in One Week! Check out his success story.
Estate Professionals Mastermind content is recorded via zoom and can be viewed in video format in the Estate Professionals Mastermind community, YouTube, or our podcast archive.
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All right. Welcome everybody to the weekly probate master group coaching call. Balcom was one of our punctual first here, and he got a few questions, so let's jump right in. How can we help you? Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. So I've been running into, I don't necessarily know if it's a problem, but I've been running into a scenario where I'm seeing that the fiduciary on file is also deceased. So you've got the decedent and then the fiduciary file is also deceased. And I can't find anybody. It's like it's there's the decedent this day, the fiduciary. And there is no attorney on file. So in a situation like that, what would be your approach to sort out what's going on? How many times have you seen that? I would say I've seen it about seven times this year. In a week? Well, not, it's not often this week. It's data that I have mined from January 1st until now. Okay. All right. That's what I was getting. That's where I was headed. Like, where's your list coming from? It happens. I mean, it's life. Right. But to have it happened seven times in one market in one week would be a record for sure. But you're talking about just to be clear for everybody else. So over the last six, seven months, and you found that at least seven occurrences where the personal representative who has passed away before probate. Yeah. So the best thing we can do and the ones that don't have attorney, he's like, that's not a resource. We can start with skip trace tools. You can use Spokio and tele us, and just try to find next of kin and just start, just start getting the story. If you can get family members to engage with you and say, who do you think is next in the line of succession that I could call and help you guys get back on track? I realized this must be a double shock to you. But how can I help you guys get this back on track? Because those families probably need our help more than anyone. Right? So, and they've went, I think I saw the, in the chat Dave had a suggestion skip genie.com on I actually haven't used that one. Dave, feel free to jump in a few, if you want to share your experience with it, but I'm a skip tracer. What's up. So I wrote my own. Of course you did. So, so David Gwinn, you need to use the bathroom if if Dave and have a question because like I've been sitting over here. So my next question was again, based on the data that I'm getting I'm finding that I'm seeing, I would say roughly, I'm going to say 30% of the cases that I'm getting on file. The attorney is filing on behalf of the fiduciary. So you got the D you have the attorney on file and under the fiduciary name, it's also the attorney. What would be your approach in handling that record? I didn't know if I should just throw it away or if I should call the attorney or what? No, no, no. Typically those are public representatives. So a lot of times that's a signal that there is no family or there's infighting in the family. So it's less emotional, more logical. The judge, the attorney and the court says. So oftentimes those can be some of the best referrals to go after, because you don't have the emotions of multiple family members. It's a B2B transaction. You can join as an, as an affiliate member. You can join like the fiduciary groups where they do this professionally for the families that, for the estates that did not have next of kin, like there's nobody in the succession line or the people in the line of succession are fighting. And the judge says, everybody take a seat. You're on the sidelines. We're putting this guy on the quarterback. So approaching them with the, how can my, my small business help your small business mind. As, as the way, the, how can you, what can you do to provide value to a fiduciary that that's getting multiple cases each month? Like they have a lot of redundancy. What are the things that you can offer them to take away some of the redundancy and maximize the asset. It's just to protect that legal fiduciary relationship they have with the estate. So show them how you ethically and aggressively approach this to maximize equity. And that helps them to turn more cases, more revenue, scale their business. So similar to the attorney conversation though, here's how, here's how my small business can help your small business. But ultimately with both of our goals, ethically living up to the fiduciary relationship, you're held accountable for. Okay. Yeah, I definitely can use that. Okay. I promise everybody. I don't have that many more questions, but I'm still, like you said, eight in the beginning. We've gotten through two. I did. I did six back left. I came ready. So another question I had was I've noticed again, in my data that there's one particular attorney on me. He is killing it. Like, I mean, I'm saying his name everywhere, right? I mean, this guy, definitely a whale and I'm both I'm anxious to approach him and I'm kind of nervous to approach them because I'm wondering, because I see him so many times. What are you nervous about? Well, I'm, I'm concerned that if I approach him and try to create that referral relationship, he's already getting so much business as it is. I don't know how he's getting it. So let's go back to that. That's thinking, thinking, and just quit that, like you've already fucked it up. You don't know. So you've already failed at this. Right? So what you're so afraid of is what you already have, how bad is it? You're right. So just cut that off. That's not an option. Maybe you do business with him three years from now. Maybe you do it next week, but quit thinking, quit being afraid of what you already have. Okay. All right. You're right. You're right. None of that, we can continue on that, but yes. Great job finding that person. Now, how can you provide the most value to his business and bring real value that no one else has. When everything taught in the course. Right? So take those ideas, that things we talk about the way like offering to bring him a referral, like bring him an estate planning, referral, go find a high net worth individual from your family or your sphere of influence or your client's list or whoever that might be. Hell go play golf and find somebody who needs one, but walk in the door with a referral or sit down and design, like collaborate on a marketing piece that helps him get through the anti solicitation loopholes. So start stuffing your, his information and your mailers. You've got you have that big list. How many of those are pro se or don't have legal representation as of yesterday? Pro se I've got. 150. Okay. So something you can do is walk into that attorney's office and say, listen, there's 150 families that are out there, blindly trying to find their way through probate. I understand that. And your side of the industry, there's anti solicitation limitations. So I'd like to do a collaborative marketing campaign where we present you as the attorney, we present me as everything non-legal and both of us. Can I pay for your next marketing campaign and find something they've got to contribute something you need a reason to be in their office face to face. Maybe that's a video where you throw up a landing page. That's the probate struggle.com or whatever that might be. And you guys do a collaborative video and point people to the landing page. And then you've called that out in a postcard or a direct mail piece that says, you know, a lot of families struggle through this. Find out how to get out of the struggle by going to, you know, this domain.com, but find a way to collaborate with them in person and build that organic relationship. And you'll be laughing at your doubt of, well, maybe I'm not good enough to get this one. Like you got this man. Yeah, I I appreciate it. Like I said, I was just nervous because this guy's already, you know, he's just killing it. So what can I bring him that he doesn't already have? But you know, like you said, the reason I'm so quick to criticize when, when I see people doing that, it goes all the way back to my first real estate job. And I grew up not wealthy, at the base of a ski resort where wealthy people were. Right. And I, I, I got into real estate and all of a sudden found myself having multiple conversations a day with millionaires and multi-millionaires, and I let it intimidate me and I let it limit me. And one day I was like, you know what? You, you live here. They're trying to buy the lifestyle that you've lived your whole damn life. Just be yourself, just believe. And like, when I approach. High net worth individuals with confidence. I got to compete slightly different result and I let every sales team, and that's kind of what you're doing to yourself, right? You're making that person bigger than life. They're a small business owner who is unemployed every damn morning and they have it tough for them. They're 100% reliant on good, authentic relationships that result in referrals. And so just bring it, bring him down to size. He's just an attorney that did some things, right. And he's done well, he will have struggles. He will, he will fall. And you know, he'll have the same challenge as you go through. I approach him with that, that business to business, business owner, to business owner mindset. And how can I help you? And it'll, it'll make it less intimidating, but the reason I'm kind of, I've kind of an emotional response to that is I shorted myself. I limited myself so much and it was only for a period of probably three to three to six months before I figured it out. And I'm like, all right, that's no way to be thinking. And by the time I moved to Maui, I mean, I was like confidently approaching billionaires and I still do. They're just people, they're all looking for the same thing. Right. And that was a good idea for the domain. The probate struggle that kind of went bought it. Oh yeah, I'm gonna play around. I don't play around. No, I don't play around. So the next question was, so again, out of this data, I've found that close to 3000 cases between January up to now, they're all closed. And I was wondering, would you even bother approaching those homeowners? Because I figured. You know, maybe they may still have the house, maybe. So there's, there's some in there some well, and they've winded. I'm one of those markets where usually by the time anyone gets the probate data, it's probate is closed and there's been an enter family transfer. Like there's been a transfer, but the house is still there. And the motivation to sell is still present. There's also companies that sell what they call an inheritance list. And that's essentially what that is. So probate has closed. The asset has been inherited and the distribution has happened. So there's, there are certainly, there are certainly deals in the list. The other thing that that list is really good for is raising private money. So if you, you know, on like with, with, you know, whatever the average state might be in your market, Tom, how many of you say it was three. Yeah, 3000, like how many private money leads or how many, how many private lender leads are in there? So if you are looking for capital or your investors are looking for capital, you can run a specific type of campaign to those. So it's fair to assume that since probate is closed, the distribution has been made and they've gotten some cash and they've gotten some assets. So don't think about it just as a real estate transfer. Think about the cash too. So those are really good referrals to your registered investment advisor. They're really good referrals to your estate planning attorney. They're really good opportunities for you to raise private capital and continue to serve those families and show them how to, you know, to, to grow that generational wealth. Awesome. Awesome. And this is the last one and it's kinda, it's completely unrelated to probate and if need be, we can tailor it towards the end of the call, but I was hoping you could re canvas your foreclosure conversation framework. You kind of touched on it last week and I wrote as much of it as I could, but you know, sometimes, you drop those gyms, man. So I gotta, I gotta keep, I gotta, you know, you know, I gotta keep it. Yeah. So for me, and I'll I'll, we can pull that mind map up here. I'll find it, but the methodology. Develop that amount of self-criticism like I would approach people with kind of a selfish approach of I'm going to get that house. And what I realized is almost everyone in foreclosure think that they're not going to get foreclosed on. And there's a lot of psychology at play. So I would, in my experience, 99% of them want to stay in the home and want to continue living there. And that's what we want for them too. Right? Like we don't want to kick people out of their houses, but the reality is at some point the sheriff is going to intervene and they're going to have a rude awakening on that day. And I've seen that happen. People literally just completely lost moving into these crappy little weekly stay hotels because they just put their head in the sand and they refuse to admit what was happening. So all that said, I found that approaching them and. Not going along with it, but understanding that they have to come to their own realization in their mind. Oh shit, this is real. And it's going to happen. The question of, you know, I listened, I noticed that you're probably getting a lot of phone calls. This one's going to be a lot different and I just have one question for you. Would you like to keep the home or would you like, would you like to stay or home and keep it, or, or would you like to sell it and get a fresh start? And then just be absolutely quiet. Do not say a word and like what they, what they say next, you know, you can immediately start to gather what their emotional state is, what their financial situation is, how far behind, or how, how much, how deep their head is in the sand. And then you start to, you know, navigate the conversation an emotional conversation with a logical track. And let me, let me jump over and grab that mind map so we can take a look at it. And I think this with almost every lead type, but foreclosure is where I learned it. And then later applied it to the probate zoom. All right. You guys have my screen now? Yes. All right. So this is a work in progress. This is just a rough outline, but, and in my head, you know, and so this is any, any, and every conversation. So we know there's real estate. Yes. We know there's debt. Yes. So from this branch out is where, so you have your real estate, you have debt and our payments current. No. So basically this branch represents the foreclosure situation. So the first thing we're trying to find out is, is there equity, but we don't because of this is a sensitive, emotional conversation. We don't just want to come out and ask this of these people, right? Like we need to, you, we need to find a balance between appealing to their sensitive, emotional state and getting the logical information we need. That's one of the reasons I hate script so much as because you know, like people go out and they, they, they fire too early. So it's, it's about reading the conversation. So, okay. We know you're behind on payments. We, we saw that in the notice of default, we don't really need to have that conversation, which is an embarrassing conversation and can drive them inward where you're, you're not getting the engagement. So there's some things we know through deduction, like the way that, the way that we got the list. So letting them know that they're, you know, that's nothing to be embarrassed about, like 9 million other people are in that situation, whatever that might be. And the fact that, like, when I say you, I'm sure you've gotten, you've had conversations and I just want to let you know this one's going to be a lot different. So I'm trying to get away from that preconceived. Reputation that they've given me because of everyone else's money, the water and tried. I want to let them know this is more of a consultation. This is not, that's not me trying to scare the shit out of you to force, to get you to do something. You know, that benefits me. So the first thing you're trying to figure out, is there equity? Yes or no, if they're behind on payments. So they're behind on payments. There is equity. Then we just need to figure out how can we get them out before the foreclosure date, right? Like how far behind are they? What's their target date? How quickly can they find a, another suitable living situation? If it's less than 30 days, we got to bring cash in and close this thing fast, definitely have a short fuse deal. 60 to 90 days. We can probably get them out as, as, as a broker. If it's, long-term like, if they're willing to wait a long time for the solution, but we need to get it in place quickly. This is a great place for creative financing. So we can use, we can put a second, like a rap we can do sub-to, or we can do a lease option. And there's a lot more of the scenarios right now than there was in 2008 through 2012 there, you know, because of the massive amounts of money printing. That such that the fed has done, a lot of folks do have equity this time. And even before the COVID lockdown, we had higher equity levels than almost any other period, because we had the de-leveraging in 2008 through 12, and we tightened lending guidelines. So you're going to have this conversation a lot more now than you did in the two that eight to 12 period. But the ones who really, really are stuck are, you know, they aren't paying. They aren't current on payments. There is no equity. And from here, if you have less than 30 days, like this is a short fuse, there's no equity in it -if they're in an absolute, real hurry, can we transition it to a rental property and somehow bring the thing current so they could, you know, as the one to six months, we're going to do short sale in that scenario. The other, the outcome here too, is if you can't do this, it's going to the courthouse usually, and then longer term the creative financing. So we can do a second rapid lease option or a sub two. If you have a more specific question or if you were just looking to get back to this, did you get what you needed? So the question was like, okay, so the first part, you nailed that, but I guess I just kind of wanted to hear the Chad way of you know, here's a Chad approach to how you would ask, what you would literally be saying to lead them down these questions and decision paths, because I've had, you know, wild experiences when speaking withhomeowners that have been going through foreclosure and rightfully so... You have one fresh in your head? So the last one, I tried it a remix of something I'd heard you say, you know, I know that this could be a touchy conversation. I didn't want to rehash something that they'd already heard a lot. And I was looking at the mind map and just trying to work my way through it. But when I got to the part, when I was asking, you know, if there was equity, she kinda clammed up on me. She didn't really want to share. You willing to role-play? All right, let's go. So, uh, you, you know, your scenario, I know nothing about it. Other than you're in default, let's just, let's set some assumptions to set the stage. I don't know if you have equity in your home. I haven't done the research on the asset, but I do know that you have an N.O.D. So you're at least three months behind on payments because that's the list I found you from that fits the scenario that you're talking about. Right? Okay. Ring ring. Hello. Hi, I'm trying to reach Malcolm speaking. My name's Chad Corvette. Uh, we don't know each other yet, but, uh, I, I did get your name from I'm sure you can guess where, because I'm sure you've had this conversation, a similar conversation. Um, I noticed that you, you do have a notice of default on public record. We were down at the courthouse, pulling some, some data, and I just want to preface this with this. This is a different type of conversation than you've probably had. Um, w we are a social enterprise here in the Roanoke valley, and we try to reach out to families that are in tough situations, because we have a lot of resources and teams of people, a team of people that was built specifically to help people save their homes, um, and sometimes, you know, move on to the next, the next chapter of life. So have you got just a few minutes to chat? Yeah, I've got a few minutes. Okay. Um, I'm guessing you've heard from some other people that were trying to get to find out how they could get the house and this and that. Then probably didn't ask you a lot of questions about yourself. Um, if, if I have your permission, like, if, if you can trust me that I am here trying to help you, and if I can get your permission, I'm going to ask progressively more personal questions, because I don't know how to help you until I can really understand your, your, your situation. So are you okay. Trusting me enough that I can ask some kind of sensitive personal questions? Uh, yeah. For now. Yeah. Okay. And if, if we get to a point where you say, you know, where you feel like, Hey, this is none of his damn business. All I ask for is the transparency. Just, just tell me that. Okay. Well, the first things that, that we try to determine, as you know, we'll, we'll may ask you that, what is your goal to stay in your home, or would you rather move on to another chapter of life? Well, I mean, I kind of want to stay here, but you know, it's difficult for me to afford the place now, obviously, you know, I lost my job due to COVID, so I have bills and you know, and you're facing unemployment. Your unemployment overlay goes away in less than a month, right? Yep. Yep. So the first thing we try to look for in this situation, if you want to stay there and you, you don't have an income right now, is there somebody in your family or your spirit, your group of friends that, that, well, first of all, would you believe be willing to ask for financial help from a friend or family? And second, do, do you, as that person, is there a person like that in your life right now? At the moment? No. Okay. Um, when do you think you'll be back to work? Do you have, do you have work lined up? What line of work are you in? Is it something you expect this to be short-term or long-term I expect to be out of work? Uh, you know, it could be some time, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a commercial blazer. No, have a blast. Uh, you know, I've been putting applications out, but you know, everywhere, it's pretty tight, you know, due to, you know, all these shutdowns and lock downs, uh, you know, nobody's been able to really get any glass in. So, you know, you know, everybody's pretty much hurting, so no one will put an application, you know, I just, you know, I'm not getting any callbacks. They're all saying the same thing. Sure. Um, let me ask you this, do you in the next, and let's just look out the next six months to start. Are there any other big purchases you need to make? Like, do you need to replace a family vehicle or do you need to use your credit for anything and in the near future? Sure. Uh, no, the car is fine for now. They haven't repossessed that. Okay. And are you making the payments on, on your vehicles and, and that's that's okay. I'm about a month behind him. A car payment. Okay. And do you, uh, do you have a way to keep those? Uh, yeah, I'm keeping my car payment current. Okay. Um, as you can see, we're, we're really worried about your overall situation, but that will bring us back to what is the best thing to do about your living situation. So I'll check in with you from time to time, like, based on the kind of questions I've asked so far. Yeah. Okay. So where we are, we try to look at options. So for you to stay in the home, we've got to find a way to bring the payments current, because at this point in the next 30 to 45 days, the sheriff could be knocking on your door. Have you talked about that with your family? Like, have you really felt that and thought about what the logistically what happens when, when that happens? Honestly, it's been just so stressful now I've just kind of hid under, you know, hidden under the cover, hoping it would go away. So the reason I ask this is, uh, unfortunately, you know, we, well, I guess fortunately, because we have an opportunity to have this conversation, we've talked a lot. We talked to a lot of folks. We try to talk to everybody who's on your situation because we know there's almost always a solution that we can find through years of experience and tons of great relationships with other professionals here. We can find a way to help you and we can navigate this with you. Um, but a lot of the most common thing I see is people just. Don't do anything. And that inaction usually results in a much more painful end result. And that's the sheriff knocking on the door with a piece of paper in his hand and, you know, family members crying and a panic to figure out where the hell are we sleeping tonight. And that comes with embarrassment. And, you know, I, I try to, I see my role in, in, in large part of how can I help prevent that because I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in that position. Right. So do you have family members, do you have suitable housing and other than this, like if you had to move tonight, what would you do? You do either go to a hotel or sleep in my car. Okay. So neither of those are a good outcome. So I like what I'm seeing is we need to find a way for you to stay in the home as long as possible until we can get some income and then we can get you back on your feet and get you into a rental property. Are you willing to live in a rental for a while? Yeah. Okay. Um, so there's a few options here. Are you familiar with, do you know if I say short sale? Do you know what that means? No, I don't. So a short sale is simply the bank agreeing to take a, an amount short of what you owe on their home. So how much is your, what's your balance? The remaining balance on your mortgage. And if they've sent you a statement with penalties and, and you know, the actual payoff amount, like, do you know what that number is roughly right now? Nah, I still owe 80 about 80 on the house. Okay. And have you spoken to any other real estate professionals that have given you an indication of what the home was worth? Have you had an appraisal or a BPO or a realtor tell you what it's worth? No. I just had a bunch of people calling me and texting me, telling me they want to house. Do you think it's worth, if you said all right, I'm okay. Selling the house. What do you think it's worth today? I mean, I honestly hadn't really thought about it, but I've seen no houses nearby, uh, you know, from, from, from neighbors, no, fixing up their houses and moving, you know, last one I seen him much for about, about 1 50, 1 60. Okay. So there's a good chance that you have equity. I mean, we could be talking about $80,000 in cash to better your situation, right. That would be helpful. All right. Tell me about the condition of the property. Um, well, you know, as I said, you know, I'm a pleaser, so. When I first got here, you know, the plays, it had nothing, they had nothing at all. I completely redid the patio, had some, some contractor buddies of mine and another buddy of mine that, uh, that I worked with as a civil engineer. So we completely redid the back patio. It was all dirt back there before I got here, but now it's a nice finished patio. Uh, I've got, uh, you know, swinging patio glass doors for, you know, for the back. Uh, there's two bathrooms. I was installed last year, a frameless glass showers, uh, Neo angle, glass showers. And, uh, both of, you know, both of the bathrooms, uh, the roof, the roof's. Okay. Uh, I know that doesn't need to get redone. The shingles are fine. Um, you know, the electric is, you know, the electric is good. It's not, it's not knob and tube or anything crazy. Uh, I would say that, you know, by most Anders, the house was in pretty good condition. Okay. Well, it sounds like, I mean, it'll qualify for FHA VA. Like we won't have problems getting financing on the home. It's not in terrible condition. Sounds like it's in great condition and you've done the right things to actually build equity into it. So this is an easier conversation than if you said, you know, Chad, I owe 150 and I think we could sell it for 130. Um, so when, when was the last contact you had with the lender? The last letter you got or the last phone conversation? Yeah. Uh, about, about four months ago. Okay. Do you know if they have scheduled an auction date for you? Okay. So that's the first thing we need to look at. We need to look at the notice of default and actually see, is there an auction scheduled? If there is, that's going to tell us what, how short our fuse is. Uh, you're beyond the 90 day mark. So in the state of Virginia, they could be, you could be less than 30 days from the sheriff, from the courthouse steps and the sheriff knocking on your door. Now I have a bit of a, uh, I. Of an emergency button. If we need to, I can, I need like, if, if that starts to happen, if, if we run out of time, I might need you to file bankruptcy. That doesn't mean you have to take it all the way through to a discharge, but it will absolutely put the brakes on this. So if I call you and say, you need to file bankruptcy today, I need you to be mentally prepared, emotionally prepared for that. Um, because that's the only way that with absolute certainty, we can stop a sale on its tracks. So if, if you were in that situation and it's, it's going to spill over into your, your, you know, your home loan, your car loans, your other things, oh, you don't have to finish it. And, um, our bankruptcy attorney can have that conversation with you about, you know, what that means. But if, if we've got days that sometimes the tactic we have to use, it's unlikely. It's, uh, I like to have a good strategy in place, so we know, you know, I don't call you and just hit you out of the blue and blindside you or something like that. Um, the other option is we can transition it like you typically, if there's not equity, we'll try to do a short sale and we can get it. We can get that. Contract, we can get the short sale paperwork into a division of the bank that moves it out of their special assets division and over to a distressed assets division. And it kind of stops the clock on all that stuff. So there's ways that we can intervene in that process, ideally in this market condition with your home and, and great condition and such low inventory levels. I don't think we're going to have to use those kinds of contingency plans. I think our, our primary strategy is beautiful photography, really good marketing, a conventional listing we'll price aggressively low to really get attention and we'll call for offers and sit, sit for seven days and wait and let them sweat and continue to build themselves up. So we'll maximize what equity, every bit of equity we can get out of it. We'll pick the best one. And then we'll know we've got about $80,000 to find you a more suitable, uh, you know, on alternative living such. Um, we've got to kind of verify all this and make sure that that's right, but just based on what I know about your situation right now, I think that I think you're going to be okay, man. Like I think in the next 30 days, we can get you a closing. I know that it's not the outcome you really want. It's not keeping you in your home. Now, if you had a way to, if you had a way to say, Chad, listen, I've got this lump sum of money coming, or no, that I'm going to get this contract at work. There, there is one more alternative, like either me or some of, some of the investors I work with, we can actually extend a bridge loan to you, like mezzanine financing to help you get across this. So it will be a short term loan and it's a higher interest rate because it's very risky. Um, cause we would be taking a second position on, on the deed. But I have done that before, too, where I've actually had to, you know, I've had myself or other investors step in and create a bridge. So, for example, if you had a life insurance plan with a cash value that you could cash in, then I would basically be comfortable using that as collateral. If you made me, you know, you made me the beneficiary beneficiary of that on the promissory note, and then we would go 12 months and then you would pay me back, whatever that was. So just like hypothetically, if you were $10,000 in payments, you know, all the, all the, the missed payments, then I would advance you $10,000 on a promissory note. That promissory note would you would, your obligation would be to make me the beneficiary on that life insurance policy. So there's creative things like that, that we can do to kind of create bridge loans. But it requires you to have, uh, uh, you know, to have a solution for that income problem. So is there anything like that, that we haven't talked about, that, that, where we might be able to just bridge you and leave you in the home, but you've got, I've got to have certainty that you have the ability to repay. Is there anything you can think of and it helped, or any, any ways you could make money, any assets you can still life insurance policies, anything like that. So we could have a solution for you to stay where you are. No, I don't really have any assets or anything like that. Unfortunately. Okay, well that's okay. Um, as, as I said, there is a strategy that will work. Um, the good news is you're in a far better position than most. Um, I know it really sucks to move, especially after you've done all that work to the home, but without having you lose, you're losing equity by the day as the penalties rack up, we owe the bank more and more and more, right. So the faster we can do this, the better off your family will be and finding your next living situation. So what I would like to do is it's, it's only, you know, it's early today. I mean, I'm willing to be over there. This this afternoon, this evening, if you would like to meet, but what I do want to make sure that, that everyone who's affected by this decision can be present for the conversation. So a lot of times we'll sit down with the entire family, even young children, because I like for them to be able to ask me as a new, as a kind of a third party, sometimes it's helpful for the parents. If, if the real estate professional answers to hard questions and we may have to play a little bit of good cop bad cop, right? So this is less stressful on your family. When you can say. It just, that's what Chad said we have to do. So then in the child's eyes, you're not taking away their bedroom. You're not taking them out of the school system. So if it's okay with you, I would like for your whole family to be present when we meet and have the conversation, because everyone will be affected. And I don't mind absorbing that. Like if, if, if they want to blame me, that's always another way for me to help you. So when can we have everybody together in one room for that conversation, we can do it. Okay. Um, how about seven o'clock? Seven o'clock is perfect. That's dinner time. Okay. Well, in the meantime, what I'm going to do is dig in and do some research on the, the notice of default that you've received, if there is a sale date. And also, um, if you could help me by I, you you've you've gave me a good overview of what the home, the condition of the home. But if I could ask you a few more questions and then get a little more specific about it, then I'll be able to do better homework. So when I get there, I'll be able to tell you here's, here's where I'll place you in the marketplace. And, and, you know, to sell this in a week, we should be around this price. So then we'll, we'll dig in a little closer. So what I'm going to do. Quite frankly, a, a bit of a deeper dive than even an appraiser would go. And I'll have a market absorption analysis showing you what you could expect, how quickly you could expect to sell and, and each of the price ranges. Um, so have you got just another 15 minutes to ask, just to talk about the house. I know this has been mainly a people conversation. I told you it was going to be different, but now it needs to be a house conversation. Cause I think I see the way we're going to get you out. Yeah, we've got 15 minutes and we'll break there. You guys don't need me to hear it, to hear me interview him about a house. So what I did there, I was trying to make you comfortable and let you know that you weren't. The only one I was trying to let you come to your own conclusion. We found out you had equity and then. That the term and the strategy, you're just a conventional sale. And we've got to have some contingency plans in there in case the bank pulls a fast one, and that goes to the courthouse steps. We gotta be able to stop that.All of that stuff is stuff that I've done in real life, you can do bridge loans. You can file bankruptcies and just not take them all the way through. You can initiate short sales with an investor offer. You can start foreclosure in its tracks in a matter of hours. But I also you'll notice in that conversation. I, where I was emotionally preparing for those things, are you willing to share personal information with me when the questions get too sensitive, will you be honest and transparent with me? And those things all build trust. And they're just little things that I learned picked up over time, but using this approach. I got every single notice of default that would engage with me, turned into a deal like it's, you didn't hit me with any objections, but they typically don't either. I couldn't, I wanted it to. Yeah. So it's and if you guys, it may be painful foreveryone listening, that's like, damn, when he just get to the damn point, but that is the point, like slow down. This is a people conversation. Yeah. You get paid to sell houses or buy houses, but when you realize this is a people conversation, the house is the tail end. Like I, I talk about houses after I've gotten trust and act like that the person has taken action and said, yes, please come to my home and sit in front of my kids and say this, okay. Now let's talk about the house because before then the house doesn't freaking matter. It's the people that matter. So that's how I've always approached it. I use this in basically every, every list, like, you guys probably see a lot of similarities in how I approach probate. But that's how I handle all of the distressed real estate situations. That was easily hands down the best. I just can't believe I'm spacing this well. I'm glad you got value from it, man. Thanks as always Man. Okay. I'll get off the mic. Everybody else has questions. All right, who's up next? Who's got a question. Oh, we got a hand up by mist. Hey Eddie. You're a you're muted. Feel free to jump in. There we go. Okay. I just had this idea this morning and I thought maybe other people, it could be something that whether I did it, so I set it up, but other people could value from it is sending out something that's like. Like a pre-made video as part of my letters that says, we're going to have a live video, like a webinar. If you're not ready to contact me, if you're not ready to do anything with your house yet, jump on a webinar to learn about what you're going to have to do as the personal representative for the estate. Once you get possession of those house or the property or whatever. And so have a 15 minute video created talking about the different responsibilities, the options that they can do, selling it on the market, avoiding paying capital gains, whatever it might be, and then have an open Q&A afterwards. If they start getting too in depth with questions being like, Hey, that's a little bit more in-depth than what I can answer here. Let's schedule a time where we can meet together and kind of go through this one. Have you tried this or have you ever had anybody try this and two, what pitfalls do you think that doing that might have? And three, do you think that if I were to make this as like a video thing where other people could do it as part of their marketing, we could just have it be like a once a month thing. They would go out to part of the mailings. So Rosie isn't here. She's part of a beta that I started by. Excuse me back in the spring. And it was actually a 10 touch campaign over 20 weeks and it was multimedia. So we we laid out basically the 10 most frequently asked questions slash challenges. Common behavioral observations and probate. So we had 10 titles, basically 10 video titles. That was, it was used in three different ways of blog posts with the corresponding title, a YouTube video, and then a direct mail campaign. So we had three mediums. So we would, we, you like that subject line, why you need an attorney in probate, we'll just say, for example, would be week number one. So that gets you make a li a long form blog posts, like right, as, as much as you can to get at the index and make Google happy you make a YouTube video. YouTube video embedded you add the copy to word, press, and you publish you. Then take a screenshot of the YouTube video. Set that up on a postcard with the same headline and fired off to your list. You then go to Facebook, pull your list into a custom audience, run an ad, a video ad with the video and the copy that you write. So you're using the exact same subject line, the exact same content, but you're getting surface area across three different mediums. You're in their mailbox. And the email was the other part. So you're in their mailbox, you're in their inbox. You're in there, they're like YouTube feed, but you're also on, on social media. You're paying to present that to them and we get it done for, Pennix like to get a video watch as Benny's, that is still in progress. And as with a lot of things like this that are new, that really complex, it's just people get busy. We, so grant who is also not here today, he's part of that. And Rosie, as part of that they have found success with it, but the way I laid it out was 10 touches over three days. Like one touch gets scaled up to three different jobs and then every two weeks had to repeat. So what I found there, it was overwhelming. It doesn't scale. Well, the idea was to get it to a point where I would just provide it to you as a vetted out solution. So I give you basically, you go make these videos and we will do the rest. It is it's challenging because it's complex. It's very different and it did prove to be effective quickly, but I don't know that it gets too complicated. The reason that I told you all of that is because it's, this is easy. It's easy to over-complicate this, along this, in the same vein and back to what we were talking about before with short sales, right foreclosure, one of the best things I ever did, it was the very first time I ever set up a sidebar video studio and set up video. This was in 2000 early, 2012. After I had that. That first short sale deal. I'm like, holy crap. I just keep having the same conversation over and over. So I just built my first WordPress site. I sat down and I made a series of videos and I said, all right, what are these sellers asking me? What are their concerns? What are the, what is their emotional state? And how can I. Prevent, how can I get build trust, but also quit having the same conversation over and over. So I sat down and I made us a list of questions or things like things that needed to be addressed, like how a short sell affect my credit score. What is a short sale? What happens if I don't do anything what, you know, how quickly, how does the foreclosure process work in Virginia? But all it did was, was put up one page and it was a super long page. That was a very, very bad WordPress designer at the time. But this worked really, really well. I would have the question. The video and then a written answer that course, that matched what the video said, and then it would go to the next one. And they were in kind of a progressive fashion. I think there were 19 videos on one page and I would literally have people, I would drop a link on Craigslist and I would literally have bring the fucking paperwork calls because people would watch those videos and they would, they would realize I wasn't the typical real estate professional. I had more than one solution and I had their best interest in mind. And I literally would get emails and phone calls with people saying, please, please just bring paperwork and get us out of this situation. To simplify that is, it could be as simple as you put up a, an FAQ page with a series of the most common questions you would like to be at to be asked cause you're not getting the engagement. So maybe like those questions. If I could only talk to them, I would want them to ask me this question might be the mindset that you lead into the exercise and just make a page or pages of probate FAQ. And you can have, what is your domain? Do you have one? Yeah, mine's Kansas city legacy properties. Okay. So that's too long for directions, KC legacy properties. So go out there and buy a KC probate for 100. Okay. So most people associate 4, 1, 1 with more information, right? Yeah. So, or you could do Casey probate, FAQ something. That's easy to type from a phone. If you're 79 years old and have vision issues and you're on, and you get a postcard in the mailbox, think of that. Right? Who is that? Who is actually, who is your traffic? So make it an easy domain. Just create a, you can put the page on your domain name, buy that domain and just read it. So just, just as soon as traffic hits, it just pushes to your main domain forward slash fake probate FAQ, but build that probate FAQ page, drop that in the PS line of every letter you send, drop it in postcards, put it in social media, whatever it is, but that's a much simpler version of what I was talking about. And I've had really good success with that. Yeah. To go back to another level of complication. But one that I don't believe is overly complicated. I've recently started coaching and we're having good success building community groups and Facebook. So if you send them a postcard, instead of saying, you know, I'm, I'm real estate professional, this and that, these solutions, what if it's a simple postcard, there's a social enterprise right here in Kansas city that helps families going through life transitions. We've noticed you're currently and, you know, been appointed as a personal representative of an estate. We'd like to invite you to a live zoom call. Every Wednesday night with me and the professional vendors that we have vetted to help the families we serve everyWednesday night at 8:
00 PM. You show up and you transparently put yourself out there. Along with your estate planning, attorney, your registered investment advisor, your seat, CPAs, whoever it is from your team that you want to have. Now you could do it where it's not in a live format where it's as a webinar and they can, you know, they can ask questions and criticize you or whatever it might be, where you're not getting, it's not like this format where if you call me an asshole, I can't edit that out. Everybody heard it. Right. But if you do it as a webinar format, you can con you have more control over that. So maybe you just feature a conversation with each of your vendors each Wednesday night at eight, and you archive that like where you would point them to, you know, register at Kansas city probate four, one, one.com. They can register for the, the recurring and make sure it's recurring. So you're not always having to manage unique zoom, zoom links, but they're, they can register and they can see all the past calls and you'll start to build this archive. And by putting it in your marketing or by putting it all on the same page, your marketing will say, Hey, go here to register for this. Once they get there, they'll see the 10 weeks worth of content that you've already done. And that becomes basically, or, you know, it's more robust than an FAQ page, but you'll have a conversation like the gentleman that's doing it now in the Phoenix market, he has a, a social worker a grief counselor, a probate attorney, our state planning attorney, like he's just taking, highlighting those professionals and having those, those transparent conversations and then archiving those. And then they get uploaded to YouTube and Facebook net. Then they get embedded onto the, onto the site and do a post. So I think that something like that is it's something it's work that nobody else is doing. So if you can build a Kansas city, Kansas city, life transitions, Facebook community eventually you can invite divorce attorneys. You can, you can, you know, serve families who are going through divorce, looking for real estate solutions. You can talk about probate trust administration. So it scales right as my point. And it's also not that complicated. It's a great reason for you to extend your vendor network. If you say, listen, I've built this group, I'd like to make you an admin of the group so you can grow your business. Would you like to be part of it? Well, now you have a reason to talk to that probate attorney over and over and over, right? You, you see him every Wednesday night and you get an. Two things, you create frequency, which, which creates a bond, the relationship, but also you're, you're using the principle of reciprocation to your advantage. Like you're doing your, you, you had the courage to step out there and create a community resource in his space before he could, then you're asking him to be part of it instead of competing with them, you're you're supporting them. Right. So the community might be the most bang for the buck, like for your time, like actually doing it in that format. My next suggestion would be go with like the video FAQ long form. Just archive all that by a domain as easy to get to use that on your postcards. I'm going to have to rewatch this to get everything that you just said, but I liked liked all of it. I think that's, that's all the questions I had was. Whatever I do, I'm learning that I need to be consistent. I just finished the book, the compound effect, and if it stops that compounding just keeps going away. So every time I do something I'll have success and then I have pulled back and then I'm like, if I'm consistent with whatever it is I'm doing for a long enough period of time, it'll be great. That's right. And that's the kind of marketing that we're talking about. Like when you're doing these inbound marketing campaign, that's what we're talking about is inbound marketing. You gotta believe. And there are plenty of people we can follow. Like you can read Seth Godin's books, you can read, uh, They Ask You Answer is a really good book. But there's lots of proof out there that value-based content marketing works, but it doesn't happen like overnight. It's not like flipping the switch on a Facebook ad. And you've probably seen that the graphic of an entrepreneur's journey and the path is all over the place. And just like you, you admitted like the reason our path deviates and you have peaks and valleys and all this it's typically. There's only one person to blame and that's ourselves, right? Because we get distracted, we go on vacation. We, our kid gets into the state tournament for this sport or another, and we lose focus and it's usually our fault. The idea of the community group involving other people on it, as a way that I find to hold myself accountable, like if I had to show up on this call by myself, while I'm out here on the banks of this beautiful river in Washington, I knew none of you guys would be here. The chances of me showing up will be slammed like hell, I'll do that tomorrow. Having you guys here ready to have an engaging conversation, makes me want to do it. I fricking love these calls. So that's why I like the Facebook group idea, which is, it has typically with most people, it has more, runway and you know, more. Survivability, because you're accountable to other people. You're bringing an attorney, you're bringing a high-level professionals in and saying, Hey man, I'll be there on Wednesdays at eight o'clock to serve our community. Are you going to be there? So then you have to be there. Right. And you're both there. So you might as well have an interesting conversation, even if you're just talking to each other for other people to watch. And it's, it's just more sustainable. It's more likely to happen then than you approaching something on your own. Because we're human, we fall off the wagon, right? Like we, we know what we need to do. We just don't always know. So I've found that bringing other people into it, to hold you accountable. It's like having a gym buddy, right? Hey man, I'll be at the gym every morning.6:
00 AM like your ass is there. As soon as you lose your gym, buddy, it's like, ah, fuck. I'll work out tomorrow. I'm sore today, the recovery day. So any way that you can bring other people into it, where you have accountability partners and you don't have to base the relationship and that, but that's why some of the suggestions I made have other people in them. Yeah, for sure. James what's on your mind today. Hey Chad, real quick. I know we're coming up on an hour. I went through foundations last week with Bruce. It was really great. I've been through probate mastery several times, and I'm really trying to be consistent with the phones now. I had a VA, but she ended up quitting the the, the company I was utilizing due to a health problem. So she got a deal for us within the first three weeks. So I know the phones work I've been following you guys for two, three years. A point. My question is I called for like two hours last Friday. I had two guys pick up the phone. And I was able to look at the county data. I got a VA pulling all the info from me, so I just. Searching it as I went through my dollar two vacant properties, both of them said they were open to offers. I kinda hit them with Bruce's- and I guess I would attribute this to you too. "Okay. Well, it sounds like you're not looking for any help right now. You know, let me ask you this. Is there any real estate in the estate and if so, are you all leaning towards keeping it or have you considered selling it?" Both times that question got me a yes, there is real estate and a, you can shoot me an offer. Give me another month that type of type of follow up. That was the response. So I got an email from him. I'm going David Pennell's I'm taking his course to, whereas he got to gives us the layout for the marketing. So I do have the email. My question is, how do I follow up? I got them to say that they are open to selling. The price points are kind of like 200, 160, 200. They probably want the Zillow Price, that's kind of where everybody's at. So I'm trying to figure out how do I loop back around when I call them, say tomorrow or whenever. And how do I follow up with that? As far as, I know we talked last week can I come out to the property? I'm in the area tomorrow, can I look at and kind of walk around the yard and that type of thing. Set up an appointment. What do you suggest on that now that I did get a yes, there is real estate in. What's your strategy. Are you looking to hold these or flip them? My wife's an agent. We both have pretty good day jobs. We're trying to buy a property. I'm taking a creative finance course, so I'm really open to it. I've already done three wholesale deals this year, my first three deals. So, you know, whatever works. Creative finance might not be a great option right now because everybody wants, everybody's got a shit ton of equity and they all want full retail. So I'm learning creative finance, but I don't know if that's a route I'm going to be able to take frequently credit financing is best in this environment. Really? I thought it was better in a, in a while. I'll get to the price. Does the price matter if the house is free? No. Right. So if you can cover your rent and they'll give you the house, take it even, even if the price is $200,000 with creative financing, you're buying the payment, not the price, the hell with the price. If you can run it for 2,500 bucks and you can get your monthly payment down the 2000, I don't really like overpay by 25%. Cause you're not going to be paying it. You're going to put a tenant in there. They're going to pay the mortgage off and you might not realize your equity gain for 20 years, but don't ever pass up a free house. Right. Well, I, my thing is like these two guys, I think that like, there's a mortgage on one of the houses and one of them is free and clear how, how am I going to pitch that to them to say, Hey, you know, I know you can go list it as is because you know, that is an option for them to list it as is and pay agent fees and closing costs. But how can I get them to either wholesale? Instead of listing. Say it's under 200 grand, whatever kind of beat up or as is condition. How can I get them to go from listing, wanting to list at Zillow price to considering cash offer or, Hey, I can get you cashed out. I might be able to get the creative finance route. Hey, if you're willing to work with me on the timeline, if you're willing to take some payments, you know, for me to pay you off over time, I'll be able to meet that price that you're looking at. If you're willing to work with me on the terms or all the timeline, what's the best way to take them from that Zillow listing as is to a wholesale or a creative finance option. In your opinion, I've been in there. You let them self-select. Balcom is enthusiastically answering you in the chat. So welcome you unmute. All right. All right. Yeah. Hey, how's it going, man? Yeah. So that's something that if Chad didn't, didn't already say that's something, you know, I've I've invested quite heavily in and learning batch strategy, but you know, one of the things that I can say, because, you know, pretty much every, you know, you can learn how to do wholesale off the tick tock nowadays. Right? You've got like 14 year olds are teaching how to do it on Tik TOK. So as far as wholesaling is concerned, it's getting increasingly difficult because the market's getting saturated because you know, there's no regulations. Right? So one of the things that I've found is that, like with what Chad had just said, creative is the way to go because if they have a whole lot of equity, it's hard for a wholesaler to really work with those margins, because they're trying to get the property for like 65 cents, 70 cents on the dollar, but with creative and more specifically novations. I can give them every bit of what they're asking for. As long as I know that I can turn around and put it on the MLS for higher than I'm getting the property for. Right. So like, let's say for example, they have a property and they want, let's say a one 50, but we know that the ARV is, let's say 2 25 and it's got like, let's say 30,000 and repairs as necessary. Right. So we're mostly going to, they're going to try to talk them down so that where they can get their max wild bill offerings, that they could turn around and give it to them. Right. Whereas with the novation, I can say, well, listen, I'll give you everything that you're asking for. As long as you'll meet me halfway and give them the terms, part of those terms would be like, okay, well, your home's value right now as-is is let's say $150,000 and part of what we do, and this isn't my exact script that I'm telling you, but this is just me explaining it to you. But part of what we do is, we come in, we have our own contractor team, we take care of everything. You don't have to deal with a realtor. You don't have to deal with listing it. You don't have to deal with showings. You have to deal with anything. You don't have to deal with paying for the renovations. I'll take care of everything, you know, and by me doing it. It also avoids me having to deal with paying like a 6% commission and I can pass those savings on a loan to him. So by doing that, you're basically telling them like, Hey, look, if you want one 50, I can give you one 50 and I can pretty much guarantee that I can give you the one 50, because I'm going to fix this property up myself to been renovated and I'm going to make my money and I'm going to make my money off of putting it on the MLS. And you know, basically what's gonna happen isonce it closes right, once it closes the seller's going to walk away with the one 50 that they want, and then you're going to walk away with the excess, right? So that's something I've been doing in my market and, you know, granted it's a little bit, I don't want to say complex, know there's paperwork involved, but you know, wholesalers, aren't gonna be able to come anywhere. You know, they're not gonna be able to come near. So like, if you come across a homeowner where they own the property free and clear, same exact thing. Like this is a scenario buddy of mine was going through last week. It was the same exact scenario. It was a guy he owns, like, I think it was he had a portfolio of, I believe, eight properties in Florida. He had eight properties. He was an older guy, 75 years old has no kids. So he had nobody to leave the properties behind to. So my buddy's like, okay, well, I'd love to, you know, take down the whole portfolio, but you know, how about we just start with one and then we see how the one property works. If everything goes good, we can do the other six. So the homeowners said, you know what, let's give it a shot. They did a novation agreement. And you know, my buddy he turned around and he net about 20, I think it was 23 and some change after it was all said and done and we'll make them able to do it was because he gave the south that's exactly what he was asking for the wholesalers. They couldn't come anymore. You know, so the answer to your question is novation, novation, novation, novation, and David even teach us about it in this course. If you haven't bought it, shameless plug, he gives away the strategy where you can get contractors to come in and do the work three. I'm not going to say it because I'm saying David, but Chad, Chad knows I'm talking about oh yeah, yeah. But that thing I'm doing it right now. It works nice. Bam. After the call about that, feel free. I'm on Facebook. Go back to the, back to the root of your question is how do you get to, how do you get them? So you need to gather more information. You don't have enough, like if you knew a way to help them, or if like, if you knew enough about their situation, you would know what you can plug in there to make an excuse, to get you to. So whatever it is, when you reengage with them, we can get there to put up no trespassing signs. We can get there to assess the property. We can get there to introduce them to an estate sale company. There's a lot of reasons to get face to face. You have to your job when you re-engage with them as just re-engage learn enough about their situation that you can plug in value and you have a reason to be physically present there. Then you can start having that conversation. Then you choose the strategy. Like engagement is 80%. 90% of this game strategy is 10, right? So I want to congratulate. Commend you, because you are educating yourself where you can actually monetize every conversation. Most folks won't do that. And the fact that you have brokerage taken care of you are learning creative financing. You're set up to do wholesaling. Like you'll be able to help everyone and monetize every conversation. So it's, it's rare. I'm sure you've noticed you don't have a lot of competition when you're at that level where you can use those multiple strategies. What I want you to focus on now is like, you're getting comfortable with those tactics now focus more on the people and learning about their story, because they will lead you to the proper tool. Like give them everything they want, every conversation, like in the beginning, what do they want? What's driving them. Is it fear or is it desire and fear of what or desire for what and how can I find a way to get in front of them to take away their fear or feed their desires? And like I said, it's not a house ever. It's about the people and what emotional, what emotions are driving their behavior and helping them get what they want. So you can have what you want for sure. So really focus on the people and then the reason that you need to be at the house, we'll show up and it'll be apparent. You'll be like, oh fuck. I can go over there and put up a no trespassing sign or I can go over and offer to give them free photography so they can try to sell it on their own. And I mean, I'll do things like that. Like I've taken professional photographs of a home for a fisbo just, and it was a trap. I knew what the outcome was going to be. They get out there, the pictures do their job. They get offers. People lie. They didn't really weren't pre-qualified they didn't ever, they didn't sign the contract and then goes to the seller. The seller is frustrated as hell and they come back and list the house with me, but I led them to their own real estate. I didn't sell them anything. I provided value to them, let them fight their way through the thorns and come back into the meadow that I was standing in the whole time. And I was the one that actually got the home sold and absorbed all that bullshit that buyers bring. So there's things like that, any little way that you can find to give them value, give them what they want, even if they're in their own way. It'll come. It comes back to you, but well guys, listen, I'm going to jump. This was always fun conversations. Hope you guys got a ton from it. I see a lot of new names here. We didn't get, didn't hear from, so you guys hopefully you got value from this. If it was your first call, work up the courage to introduce yourself and join us next week. But as always guys, thanks for being part of the community and being an engaging fun crowd. We'll talk to you soon. Have a great day.