Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast

Success Strategies for People That Hate Cold-Calling

June 30, 2021 Chad Corbett, Katt Wagner, and Special Guests Episode 13
Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast
Success Strategies for People That Hate Cold-Calling
Show Notes Transcript

Group Coaching #13: Call Reluctance: Stop Forcing Yourself To Do What You Hate Doing


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Time Stamps (YouTube links):
00:00 Door Knocking Personal Representatives
02:05 Finding Your Red Thread in Real Estate
7:25 Door-Knocking: Circle-Farming vs. Targeting Probates
10:07 Door-Knocking: New Probate vs Pre-Probate Leads?
11:52 Pastor Perspective: Dealing With A Prospect’s Grief in Person
14:11 Success Strategies: Eliminating The Need For Cold-Calling By Winning Attorney Relationships
17:39 How To Cultivate A+ Attorney Referrals
27:27 Call Reluctance: Stop Forcing Yourself To Do What You Hate Doing
45:00 Inbound Marketing: Building Facebook Groups With Partners




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All right. Welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery group coaching call. How can we serve you guys? Okay. I have the phone numbers and just not had a whole lot of luck with connecting with people with that. So I just decided to go on the road. So I just took a little road trip last week and and just drove. I have some pop bys that I've used for my Keller Williams business and so I took those and I took the uh, the flyer that all the leads created for me. And then I took the couple page sheet with all the things that people need to do. And I took that with me as kind of a gift come from contribution and I went to nine different homes and I left a gift with each one of them. And I talked to two people. They weren't that excited about visiting with me, but I figured out, at least laid the groundwork So I'd be curious as to what your thoughts are on doing something like that. Since I just kind of took it on myself to make that. No. Good for you. So I'm curious, you were visiting not the decedent's last known address, but the personal rep's mailing address, correct? Yes. Yeah. So the first person I ever coached that did door knocking was actually in San Jose, California. And I'm like, yes, I encourage you to go do that because it's very effective. And in the back of my mind, I'm like he is going to get his ass handed to him. And he's going to find a lot of locked gates because it's in a high net worth neighborhood, but because of that market has made it very common that people have living trust. He only got like 15 leads a month. So he's like, how can I be the first there or the one to make the biggest impression? The first day of door knocking, I think he had five, like really good conversations that eventually converted the business out of 15 visits and every month. And he would continue to do that. So I've seen really good success in door knocking the personal representative. The leave behind that we worked together, worked up for him, was it was, it could easily be handed to them while having a conversation and serve as kind of a summary of the service. Or it could be a leave behind I've not seen very many people do it. So kudos to you. Everybody give Dana a hand for trying something different, instead of saying this doesn't work, stop out and try something different. And get a different result. Having now being through the other side of that challenge, like, how do you feel about it? You feel like it was time well spent that you grow from it? Are you more confident the next time you do it? Yeah I'm all in when it comes to talking to people, person to person. Because this was kinda my first round out of the box, I really feel like I dropped the ball. And so far as carrying on the conversation, we were going through something here called BOLD, and the big thing about BOLD is that the whole purpose of a conversation is to set an appointment and I do not do that. So I've failed miserably on that, but I know what I failed at. And the encouraging thing is that I will have another list. Here just ASAP to work on. And I've got several older lists that I can go back to. And I have no problem with knocking on those doors. So I feel like that what I have to offer something of value to him, and I just need to get better with my approach. I don't feel like that they rejected me. I just didn't really push for an appointment now. So I'm going to get a gold star. Now Jen gets your gold stars out. This is the book I'm reading right now. Thanks to Jennifer Bailey. Who's in the top left there. Everybody can see. She's challenging me to read this. You can see, I have a highlighter. I've got already lots of notes. Get your red thread, which is metaphorical for what is your unique offer? What can you do for the world? What problem does it solve and why is that important? And what action do you want them to take? And 140 characters or less. Mine was I teach and I got in 123 characters, Jen, including a period in space. Mine was I'd teach real estate professionals how to work less and earn more by providing more value and monetizing every conversation. And the action that I want my audience to take is to engage with these calls, engage with my courses and actually be inspired and commit to serving at that higher level and working less and earning more. So that said, I'll ask you, can you summarize, what is the reason you're knocking on the door and two, what is the outcome that you want? And you've pretty much already given that one away, but try to put that in 140 characters or less. Why did you knock on that? So you don't get wordy and you're outcome and purpose driven. So less is more when you're first trying to start these conversations, you don't want to overwhelm them with, here's how great we are and all the million things we can do to help, but get that down to a very concise one sentence. And just for fun, try to see if you can keep it below 140 characters. Well, I don't know about 140 characters, but I've kind of based it on some previous conversations that you've had and that the reason I'm knocking on your door is that I have a team of people who are worked together for families in the community, and every month we go down and we talked to the county clerk and she gives us a list of people who are actually appointed as personal representatives and she gives us the names of those folks and says, these are folks that you might want to talk to, particularly if you've got some information that would be helpful to them. So my purpose here today is to deliver a part of this information. I hope you find it useful and also to try to find a time when we might get together to see if I can help you. And what was the most common response? How many families, how many people did you have talk to the two? Yeah, I did not throw that last part in there about the appointment. I just basically said, I kind of went in and say here it wasn't quite that abrupt, but I had one guy say, yeah, my attorney takes care of all of that and I was not prepared. But That does not determine me because I know the future is in the follow-up and just to stay with these folks. So something, and you don't have to settle on this today, right here on the spot, but something to consider before you go back out on that next list is. What is one sentence that will create curiosity and elicit questions that will allow you to get them, to ask your permission, to give all that other information. And what I mean by that is instead of getting your entire probate USP out, if it's a contentious introduction, and they're trying to figure out who the hell you are, and whether you're selling steak or trying to steal their children, you give them something to, kind of break the ice, right? You know, Listen, we have a social enterprise here in town that helps families that are going through life transitions. And I just stopped by today to see how, and when we can start helping you. Well, What do you mean? And you've got to be willing to stand up to the response because some people may be triggered and defensive. But whatever that sentence might be for you, how can we get that down to one sentence with not the macro outcome, but that micro outcome being, how can I get them to engage with me? It can kind of dissolve distrust or defensiveness and create curiosity and elicit follow-up questions. So when you say that one sentence and shut up they can't help. Ask you a question. And on the phone, we do that through the whole probate USP in person. It's a different dynamic. That's why I'm suggesting you try to shorten it a little bit. Cause imagine if the rainbow sweeper salesman showed up and gave you his whole pitch on the front doorstep, didn't never get inside. He has those people have been trained to have a little concise, a little ask to get that micro result at a step one, moving toward the macro result, which is meet with me as a family. So try that and see if that makes it a little bit smoother. Hi, I have a social enterprise here in the neighborhood notice according to the probate clerk, your family is unfortunately going through that. And I just want to let you know we're here and see when we're actually going to be able to help you. Okay. I'm not to try that one, but Hey man, again, kudos for getting out there and doing that. That's awesome. Thank you. Has anyone else on this call done door knocking? I was actually out this morning door knocking my farm area. Yeah. Perfect. Tell us how many doors are in your farm radius Steve? Twelve a hundred and eighty seven oh, wow. You get your steps in. Yeah it was a perfect day to day and it was only a hundred degrees. So I did a little bit extra. I got 35 in but it's, I'm starting the farm area again. I was working at before the COVID shutdown, but I'm kind of curious, what would that look like? Cause I have no problem at all going up to knocking on doors or making phone calls, but would you do a door knock after you've done some mailings in a phone call or would you be as bold as to take an old list and just go out and handle one of your postcards and introduce yourself. If you have an old list, what I would do just to not run yourself to death is run it through probate plus if you're an, all the lead subscriber, you can run that augmentation. That'll show you the ones that. That are listed or have already sold. So that'll call your list down to just the valid ones, the ones that most likely need your help. But yes, absolutely go through those old lists. Oftentimes like a lot of people shy away from their leads once they're two or three or four months old, they're like, oh, damn it. Shame on me. I wasted that list and it's just not true. These lists are good for two years and what's really interesting is the ones who have gone three months, five months, eight months. And they still haven't taken action. Who needs our help more than they do? They're lost in the probate quicksand. those can be the most valuable and the fastest converting lead that we ever speak to. And it takes something, oftentimes it takes something drastic and usually we're not in control of that. It's a, an emotional outburst over a bowl of oatmeal one morning. When they see a Facebook memory or something, But you're kind of, the, the catalyst there because you're there in person. They can't really run from you the same as, you know, you have that electronic veil of a phone call or an email. And it's just not the same. It's a whole different human dynamic where you're standing there looking at it in the eye. It's hard to lie, right? Like you can use operant conditioning to your advantage. You know, People typically won't just slam the door in your face. They will default to being polite in most neighborhoods, So you can use that to your advantage and just, go forward with confidence to say, listen, we we actually kind of fell behind. We haven't been out here on the streets as much as we would like to, but I can't help, but think of every family in this county that has gone through this year and knowing that some of them still need my help. So I just wanted to stop by and see it. Have you got a settled the estate out and do you have everything you need or is there any way I can help your family? And it's more of like a social enterprise call, right? Like you're just canvassing the community, looking for people to help. I wouldn't shy away from that at all. You probably will find your most motivated prospects in those older lists. I would think a newer list, somebody that's just filed probate would not be a good situation to go knock on the door. It depends. I don't know if this is even written anywhere, but when we first started building the database of nationwide probate leads, when I was with all the leads, what I found was a median of 68 days from the date of death until the date of probate filing. It changes month to month or whatever period you're pulling the data, but it was usually around that two month mark. So what that means to me is that people process the loss for about two months and then they go move forward. And that they know that when they file that notice to creditors, that's the signal flare. Okay. World, we're ready to deal with this. So that's what I use. That's why I'm so comfortable in the probate space. And I'm I'm not a huge fan of the way most people handle pre probate for that reason. I would never tell you to go door-knock a suspected heir from a pre probate list because you're likely to get shot and gun in your mouth before you get a deal. It's just too soon to do that. Now we can approach them on Facebook and we can offer them things less soft offer of something valuable to them. And there, there are ways of the market to that list. I don't think it's door knocking that's too soon, but, and you can see the date of death on your probate leads. If it's really recent, then you may say, okay, it's only been a week. I'm going to give the I'm going to season this one and give them some time. But what you'll find is a lot of them will be. 2 5, 6, 10 months. And they're finally getting around to it. So they've emotionally processed it. They've given themselves their lashing for procrastinating. They've finally taken action and then they go right back to procrastinating and I'm sure none of us have ever done that before about anything. Right. I'm rolling over retirement accounts this week that I started last August and I finally just paid a guy I'm like, this is your job. Because it's just human behaviors. I wouldn't shy away from even your new list unless you see if there's a surviving spouse and she filed probate, a week after the death, that may be one that, that catch him on the next trip through town. And I would really, I think Jonathan probably has some good input here as a pastor. I'm assuming you have a lot of experience with in-home meetings during emotional transition times and family, whether that's divorce, loss of a child, whatever that might be. If you have any advice to give folks who are door knocking families, I think you're a great person to give that advice. Okay. So I have not door knocked for that very reason. I've buried more people than I would've liked to been in more people's homes, lost, loved ones. And. That's more where I was going, not the actual act of knocking on the door, but being in the home and observing like what state of mind these people are at and how any advice on how you should approach it. And especially if you disagree with anything I said, I mean, you have more experience being there at the time of loss than I do. Love to hear what your true opinion is of using this. And let's go with the assumption that most of them are going to be a couple months away from the funeral. From a pastor thing. You're a stranger walking into someone's home. Arguably just lost one of the most important people in their life. They're grieving. They're overwhelmed. So many people would just prefer to have somebody sit with them and say nothing. Just listen, cry with them, grieve with them. Not talk about something that's confusing. And so I think it's a sacred space. It's a challenging one. When I earned the right to sit with people, it's an honor to do it, but it's also, it's a tough time. And so it makes sense, hearing you talk about the data of 2, 3, 4, 5 months. I completely get it because most people just don't. They don't have enough bandwidth to grieve, let alone keep their full-time job and then settle the estate on top. Yeah. Respectful and be aware if they are in pain, set a boundary for yourself. Don't be throwing sales all over them. I think the, one of those macro outcomes is how can I find any way to help you or a micro outcome? Like your macro income is how can I get the appointment to impress the whole family, but maybe it's not time for that. On, on any occasion, when you walk up to a door, how can I help? How can I serve this person today? No matter how small that might be great. One of the things I want to. Get your thoughts on Chad is I've had a good amount of success with the attorneys. Just sent two referrals for estate plans this past week to one. Good for you, man. Impressed, I got another meeting with an attorney tomorrow, so that's, I think that's seven in the last two weeks. They're going very well. Yeah. So that I'm starting to connect more into the market, which is where I want to eventually be. In a year, I just would like to generate the business from that. The phone calls where it is just become a grind. The last two days, I don't want to do it. Part of it is having the pastoral world where I know where I'm coming in with a call. I know that world. So there's a little bit of some resistance on that part. I've had some success, but it's just getting harder and harder to make those phone calls. I'm forcing myself to do it. I'm sure. You've had a lot of people there. That's probably my biggest challenge right now. It's just making the calls. Cause that tees me up and gives me a reason to call attorneys, and have those meetings. So that's my biggest challenge right now, in addition to I've had two attorneys ask me to send them a one pager that they can send to their office, their firm. And so I'm trying to create something like that, but if you have any one-pagers. Or it's got something that's clearly articulated that other attorneys can send via email. I'd love to hear if anybody has something like that sounds like a red thread kind of document. Look at Jen, you put your red thread into this call, Jen. I know. So one of the things I w I want to develop for you guys is proven marketing pieces and there's things that we're testing through some of our members that I haven't put out there yet. One of the, so the flyers that all the leads offers, are you an all the leads subscriber? Yeah, I'm sending letters. So the 90 day campaign, the call follows up from that. If you call their support line, ask them for some examples of stuff that was designed for other members. There's only a couple of samples of those flyers, but we've literally done thousands. Say, you know, show me the ones that get repeat orders, which means they work. But we've found those tri-fold brochures that we use w very effective and like attorneys, it gave you a great reason to go back to the office as well. So on the first lady that I coached that did this, she actually was so bold that she just went to staples and bought the little plexiglass containers and she would walk in with her handbag and just set it right up on the counter and be like, I'm a probate specialist. I help families going through probate. We pick up where you guys leave off, brought these by. I just want to introduce myself. And they started calling me like, Hey, we're out of those brochures. Can you bring more buy? So it also gives you a really good reason to keep that, to, to maintain familiarity by showing up in the office. Every two weeks just drop by and say hello. And another, a girl out of Richmond that I coached who was fantastic. She actually would do it was she'd change it up, kind of like a Brian Buffini dropped by, you know, drop by with cookies, dropped by with a pumpkin drop by with an Easter Lily, things like that in addition to refreshing the flyer. So take a look at the tri-fold brochure samples. And they, I think there's a PDF of maybe a couple dozen of them that you can choose from, but it can be fully customized. They can print it for you, ship them right to you. And it's really affordable, but those have worked really well with the attorneys. And it's just kind of a bullet point of services. There's a little bit of an about section with a bullet point of services and it shows them that you're not competing. You're complimenting their, what they're doing. I've got a question for Jonathan. Yeah, go ahead. So Jonathan, I've had some success working with attorneys as well. So I've gotten one referral so far. I've I would love to go out and bring in more attorneys into the fold, so to speak as you have done. You said you, you brought a couple of referrals to one attorney. Is that what happened? Yeah. So this is really uh, um, hat tip to Chad. I think here you articulated a couple of weeks ago, just that you don't want to have a single moment where you can't monetize a certain moment, right? In real estate. So framing it as a real estate professional, where you have multiple creative solutions, I've used your mind map multiple times. I've trained other people on it. When I first got started, I was brand new. I was part-time transitioned full-time you kind of helped me in that mindset. And then the team I'm with that's how we roll. It's just, it's not, your typical listings, it's all kind of creative stuff, which in the beginning made my head HeadSpin scared the crap out of me. I mean, I, I was terrified, but. Oh, it was crazy. It was, It was crazy. I'll tell you about the nightmare. Lease with option that I had to go through that. Oh my goodness. But we got through it. It was a massive tuition paid, but I think what started to happen is when I'm, I've had so much success recently just talking normal non-probate clients doing what Chad said, Hey, call them, ask them, Hey, I'm working with a lot of probate clients, really talking to a lot of people. They don't have a, will let alone a trust or an estate plan. Is that something that you've even thought about and most people would say no. So I'm setting up attorneys with some real high net worth individuals that they just haven't done it. And so the one attorney that I've done, I brought them on the podcast. I've sent him four referrals in two weeks, and then now I've sent so many to him. I've got to start sharing the wealth with the other. I'm not necessarily a tit for tat I think at the end of the day, if I just provide 51% value and have 49% return, I'm happy. But I'm also trying to find partners that eventually I can, zero-cost my marketing have even them paying. And I want to figure out how to monetize the different ways, but I've got to earn the right by essentially feeding them business. I don't want to be the guy just to say, Hey, we can pick up where you leave off only. And so much of that is dependent on me making the calls. I'm bringing in another guy. Who's also a pastor. He's going to be helping me on making the calls so that now I'm free. To go really kind of network more with the attorneys and I was going to leverage it and build it, build bigger, but that's all I've done with the attorneys. It's the probate piece. It's the talking with clients and probably going on one appointment a day that don't have a trust. So I'm setting attorneys up with that. And then the probate leads and I'm calling in the mornings. I'm trying to do it there. It's just a lot harder pool and it requires a lot more phone calls and touch points. Eventually we'll get there, but that's all I'm doing right now. Okay. So that sounded really interesting, but I want to, I want some more detail there on part of that. You're getting leads for the attorneys. It sounds like you're doing really well at that. You sent four leads to one particular attorney. It doesn't sound like they're, these leads are coming from the phone calls that you're making to the probate leads though. They're coming through another method. Tell me more about that method. How are you getting these. How are you setting the appointments? How are you bringing up the issue of estate planning? How does that all develop so two of the four have come from the probate calls. Yeah. The other two have come through just appointments that I've generated more on the non probate, real estate side of the business. So these is just your normal non probate clients that are looking to sell. And so that, and then just my sphere that I'm calling through, just staying in touch with, I heard Chad say this, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago. And it's just now a normal part of a conversation for me. Hey, I'm serving a lot of clients in probate. A lot of them don't have estate plans. Do you have one? And it's just become a more normal piece of my conversation, all with an intent to help people. So that's just gone really well. It never was talking about it before. Now it is, and it's bringing up a lot more conversations. That's great, man. So Ronald, how many people do you know with a net worth of a hundred thousand or more? A lot. 5% of Americans have a living trust, which assumptively, there's a 95% chance. Those people do not have a proper end of life plan in place. And the way I started to look at that after seeing enough people go through, it was, I feel compelled to make that difference, because I've seen. The other on the other side of the curtain, I've seen what they're headed for. And even though they're, they might not be aware of that right now. And probably not until they're their last moments when it's too late. Some of the, the more I've talked to the high end Trust attorneys who actually established trust literally in hospice care. And it's a very common thing. They have a whole division of their business. That's twenty four seven, the phone, if the phone rings it's answered on the first or second ring and they will get up in the middle of the night, whoever's on call and they'll go right there and draft the trust agreement and in the hospice and hospitals and trauma situations. It's people, oftentimes they know that it's something sometimes even the higher net worth people, they usually know what they need to do, but they're still not doing it. It's just not a priority. So if you can just connect with those people, you already know. And pretty much anyone with more than a hundred grand will spend less on a trust than they will on probate. And that's why I chose that net worth level, which is probably a lot of the people, like most of the people we associate. So just enter that conversation and show them, listen I've watched a lot of people struggle through this. And let me ask you this first. Do you have a living trust? Do you have your estate plan in place? No. I'm asking you personally. Yes I do. Yes. Yes. Okay. so you're, leading by example and you could start that conversation by saying, listen, 2020 really gave me a chance to think about the thing that I could do to serve everyone at a higher level and helping so many families and probate really made me realize. Thank God I have my estate plan set up, but most people don't and most people have the misconception that having a will is having an estate plan and that's simply not true. Having a will still cost you five to 8% of your total estate value. Well, What do you mean? It's called probate and that's something that I, unfortunately I help folks through because they need help. It's complicated, it's expensive. It's drawn out. But if I could give you a free meeting with my legal team, that's an hour with an estate planning attorney. Understand what the options are like maybe for you, a living trust as the right option. Maybe not, maybe just properly titling assets, so they transfer on death. But if I can give you a free hour with my legal team, can you please take it and do what's best for you and your family? And that's how you can cultivate these on these are a plus referrals. These attorneys have anti solicitation laws. They can't go market for this business. There's a reason you don't hear it on the radio. You don't see it in bill on billboards. They don't direct mail market. They can't, they are at the mercy of referrals. And if we can become the referral source for them, yes. The principle of reciprocity will never die. They feel obligated to return the favor. Maybe it's today, maybe it's next month, but it's a really good way to, to earn those attorney relationships and everyone on this call has somebody they can do. And if you don't have an estate plan yourself, if you don't have a living trust and you're on this call, Go get one, because if I have my say about it, you're going to be well into seven figures in net worth before you quit listening to my advice. So you're going to need it, just go ahead and preemptively, get that in place, but it's good to show people that you lead by example, listen, the reason I got a living trust was because I saw so many families pay tens of thousands of dollars in probate to be told what to do by the government. I sure as hell don't want my heirs to be in that situation. No. How about you sit down with my attorney, do me a favor, more importantly, yourself, take an hour of his time. I'll pick up the bill and you at least know then so reach as many of those people as you can. And Jonathan, I'm really glad to hear that that's become a part of your conversation on the probate calls as well as in your sphere of influence. Thanks, Chad I thought about it. If it, if you didn't do it I spoke this past week. I'm selling a CTO of a very well-known company that I'm sure everybody would know if I dropped it, I could not believe this guy's got massive net worth. And he asked me if he should sell his house or rent it. So I said, I don't know. But if you tell me a little bit more about your financial situation and that's appropriate, I could counsel you here. So he said, sure, which I have no business doing. He makes way more money than I do, but I came at it. I want to help you make the best decision for you and in the conversation. That's when I asked him, are you, do you have a trust? No, I don't. Do you have a no, I don't. And I'm sitting here thinking you've gotta be kidding me. This guy has so much money. But he does not have this set up. And so I just did the same thing. Let me set you up with a free one-hour consult, he did it, and then I'm following up with him tonight. But the same thing happens Chad his crazy this past week. This was one of the first attorneys I cold called when I first came on with you guys. This is two years ago, and then I didn't do anything with probate up until about two months ago. A year. I just got a referral from that attorney that I had sent to clients too, had not talked to him in over a year. And he just sent me a referral. It just was a lesson that if I continue to do this, it's one of those things that it just keeps on giving and uh, just have to earn the right to. Yup. Definitely that's cultivation. And Dana, that's something too, like you're already stepping outside of the box and you're okay. Leaving your office to go do those things. I want to challenge you to do some of this too, and actually go generate some, cultivate, some referrals, walk into these firms and show them that you're a trusted partner leading with value. Here you go. This one's ready for a conversation. So that's awesome. Jonathan, I want to go back and ask a few more questions about your call reluctance. And I'll preface this by saying maybe that's okay. We oftentimes, if you, and I don't know, as a theologian, you've probably studied Daoism and the Dao de Jing, so you know what letting go means in that context. And the more you fight for something, the less likely usually you are to get that, to achieve that. And the more you are to want it and the harder you fight. So when you're, when we're forcing ourselves to do things we just aren't good at, or just hate to do, as an America, as a culture, Americans have said, God, that's grit. That's how you get it. Get a good push through it. And Jocko Willink might be watching this and will disagree with me. Yeah. I've worked with a lot of people and grit and willpower only goes so far. If you're miserable doing the phone calls, like maybe not doing them now. That doesn't mean somebody isn't doing them, but you probably shouldn't be. You're obviously you're already operating at a really high level in this space. You're very professional. You're a good conversationalist. You found ways to provide value to people being on the phone might not be the most dollar productive thing for Jonathan. How do we delegate that? Or how do we supplement your marketing in such a way that, that, that contact is still, but you're still getting the repetition, the touches with these people, even if it's not on the phone. As far as delegation, you could hire an ISA and have it in your office. We have Steve Lindo with voice logic. He has three different programs are really two different programs. They can do a live delivered voicemail, which doesn't violate TCPA. Or they can actually do calls for you. You can buy a block of hours and have them make the calls. We use a really simple script with his team that's effective. It's just, Hey, listen, I'm calling from the office, Jonathan Smith. He's out on appointment, but he wanted to make sure that I touch base and help you guys understand that we have a social enterprise here in the community to help families going through. And the probate clerk actually let us know that you're in this situation and Jonathan, who was also a local pastor and a real estate professional. He just wanted to see if he could give you a block of time on his calendar and just go for that and defer all questions. The far object. And they just burned, it's a superficial call just to get the hands raised, not to close anything or convert anything. Let's just get, let's just see what hands come in the air when we make around the calls and that's gonna cost you, but how much is it costing you to make to make yourself do something you hate? Like how much emotional energy are you burning up in the morning that you don't have for the rest of the day? First thing I would say, and this is, to Jonathan and anyone else who's on this call that might be in this situation. And trust me, I've been there. Show yourself some grace as step one. Like making these calls is hard. It's not fun that when you finally get that one, like the one that's yes, then you get like that cold chill phone call, right? Like I know I'm going to change their life. That one that's the fuel for the next one. And the next one. But then there might be 99 calls in between that next one. That next cold chill call. I'll I tried the. The discipline and the grit and self accountability. And I even had, I wrote a letter, a check, and a letter to my, my, a competitor of mine that really has different business values. Yeah. And I mailed it to a friend of mine, a coach, and a friend of mine. And when I didn't make my calls, he had my permission to drop that in the mail it was posted with, I think it was a thousand dollars. Cashier's check inside. And if I didn't make the damn calls, I knew he would drop that in the mail. And I, I don't really have it in me to lie. So I had to tell him dark energy, man. I swear to God, then it would like, it would be at the end of the week. I'm like, oh my God, my call with is coming up in the co, like the motivation to get on the phones. And I would knock out 10 hours of prospecting, just so I didn't have to have that letter delivered. It was really poor advice. I mean, he's a good, he's a great real estate professional, probably one of the top 100 in the country. Brett Jennings out of San Jose. He's on Forbes lists and everything. So he's a great real estate professional and a great coach. I will say that for my personality type. It was really not that great advice because it was, again, there's some dark energy like that was hanging over me every week. And what I ultimately learned is there's ways to create inbound marketing campaigns, where you don't have to be so hard on yourself and you can create 6% conversion on auto. Where I ultimately ended up in, in mind, I was okay with 6%, if I could make a 2000% ROI that was better than me forcing myself to do work, that I hated. And I just didn't. I tried ISA and couldn't get them to convert at the time. I've my skill sets gotten better and finding and training the right ISA, but at the time I didn't feel like I had anyone to delegate that to, so I really focused on inbounding my leads. So how do I get them to call off the letter? How do I get them to call for a Facebook ad? How do I get an attorney to call me and give me that lead? And I maintain 6% conversion. I mean, and you heard me talk about it in the course. I mean, I was featured, Mary Lou Tyler with predictable revenue. Like it was so systematic that she's we need to document this. And I'm I'm gonna admit it was all inbound because that was it. Just reading that book with, for your request. And that's one of the points they make. The real value add is not necessarily the prospecting, but the appointment and the enrollment. So if I'm hearing you correctly, Chad, you did. The mailers you were networking with attorneys. What other sources do you recommend other than ISA ways for us to do the inbound piece? Especially when, what I'm trying to do is lead with revenue, not expense. I don't want to be personally just putting this stuff on a credit card and saying, oh, I just need one more deal too. That's how everybody runs in this real estate space, nothing against it, but everybody who's trying to sell me something. You just need one deal to close this. And I understand that. How does a guy who's really trying to bootstrap this and lead with revenue, not expense, do it on these issues that you just gotta, you gotta put them on. A lesson later with revenue as a mantra of mine. Like I don't believe people who tell you, you should lose money on a business for two years before you're profitable. They don't know shit about business. And if you're losing money, shut it down. You're not very good at it. Go start another one, do something. So I agree with I agree with you and I support you in that. Let's find those things that are high value, low cost, no cost that you can do. You've uncovered one, you're doing a really good job at that. You're working the attorneys. Now what if we can, and what if we look at low cost, what if we can actually start to write some content as valuable to your audience and we deliver that would deliver it to them in Facebook for four to 12 cents an impression and show it to them. Twenty-five times. We can spend dollars and get thousands of impressions per day for, I mean, if you spend $15 a day, you're going to these people, it will be burned in their brain because they're going to see it multiple times a day. So there's things like that. Pushing your probate list into a custom audience. Just something as simple as a testimonial or a fax that like in a carousel, you never know what's going to work as far as copy and creative, but imagine if you were able to spend the two hours a morning that you were you're spending on the phones and really not enjoying that. What if you just allocate those two hours to creative thinking and finding the right creative and the right copy to run to that ad to that audience? It may take a week. It may take two weeks. And, but if you're not on the phones for two weeks, it's not going to bankrupt you're going to be okay. But what I'm really curious is how will your creative battery recharge when you're not forcing yourself to do things that are going against what your gut feeling is right now? How much, how many good ideas can you feed into that? How many images can you come up with? Or what videos can you make? To serve to that Facebook audience for pennies. And we can accomplish that a hell of a lot cheaper than we can paying an ISA. It'll be on the phones for you. Because even if, even with an offshore ISA, we're going to be looking at five to $7 an hour and they're going to be junior and not much experience. And they need leadership and management almost constantly. If you want an experienced ISA that can already convert. I mean, you're talking 20 to 50 bucks an hour, depending on, domestic or. International. So low cost, no cost continue doing what you're done with attorneys start playing around with Facebook. One of the things that worked really well for me until it didn't was ringless voicemail. I no longer endorsed that cause it costs me 20. I got shaken down. I got threatened to no class action suit. I know if they got me into discovery, they can find me 250 bucks for every one I've ever dropped. So I was, I settled and I let them shake me out and I quit using ringless voicemail. And it's just not worth it. It's easy. And it works. It works really well. You can inbound three to 4% of any campaign on this one. But you're also inbounding a shit load of liability. If your direct mail is out there supplement that with social media efforts. The other thing, the organic efforts. So the Facebook group, and I think last week we talked about this building a true community resource for folks that are in this situation. And that's a good way to. Good creative and copy for your Facebook ad is: join this group. is, This is Maryland, Virginia, DC family transitions. And it's a place where estate planning and probate profession trust administered professionals can come together to provide answers. And value to the community who's who suffered a loss. And, that's your, your main group description. So what are the things you can do to point attention to that? Even if that's just having the attorneys, send it out to their email list Hey man, listen, I sent you four referrals and I hope that was really good business. I have this idea. I want to start a Facebook group and I want you to be an ally. I'm going to be an admin. You're going to be an admin. We're going to have a probate judge will be an admin. Whoever you can get. That's a little higher profile that can bring value, make them admin, give them ownership in the group so we can get the idea to proliferate through their network because they feel a sense of ownership in that, right? Oh, this is our. Not his group, but our group. And if we can get them to send that out through their email list and say, Hey guys, listen you're an admin in this group. The more people that are in the group, the more business we all learn from it. So here's some copy that I wrote, feel free to edit it as you want, but could you please send us across to your email list? And this is grassroots or organic marketing, but if we can provide a group and we can give. The enough admins in it that people take it seriously. We can get those admins to promote it to their audience and you promote it to your audience then who the hell knows what that looks like in six months. You may have this trade group for a state professionals in your area and you got, you put your flag on the hill, guess what? Guess what? Nobody's taking that. No. And it's one of those things that, that we've talked about for, I think this is the third or fourth time we've kind of developed the idea. I've yet to see a full-blown exit Facebook groups with a lot of the groups I'm a part of from sales training, et cetera. You've got the units category where you can essentially provide training or somebody can go in there and consume any number of things that you could put up there for free. How would somebody generate somebody being added to that apart from the other admins? Would you recommend it? Cause this is a thought I had, but I don't know if you open yourself up to liability for those of us who have leads that have emails. Can we send an email to those leads with the call to action of going to the Facebook group? Or does that open us up to some of this liability that you had with the ringless voice? Different liability. So that's can spam not TCPA. The reason I suggest that you upload your leads into a Facebook saved audience and then run ads to get them to join the group is because they don't know why they're being targeted. They don't know that you have their emails. And the biggest risk you run with cold emailing is actually destroying your domain authority. So if you put that in and you're sending it from, Jonathan probate.com and that's a valuable domain to you, if you start getting a lot of spam complaints, then you lose domain authority and you can disable a million dollar website. Floppy email practice. So Facebook has just a really great workaround for those cold lists where we don't have double opt-ins. We can upload it in that saved audience, target them, ask for the same call to action. But the big benefit is if you send an email. You're probably going to get 20 to 40% open rates. If you're a great copywriter. If you send that same email again, you're going to get people like, what the hell is this guy's problem? He just sent this, I just got this email yesterday and send it three days in a row. Then you start to lose credibility with every day. That goes by that you repeat that email, right? With Facebook marketing, it's completely different. It's a branding impression. It's not perceived as it's got a shoving, the same damn ad down my throat. It's oh, there's that? Oh, there's that again? Oh, there's that again? And we know that 83% of sales are generated from marketing between marketing touch seven and 12. So the more repetition we can have, the more likely we are to have that conversation. And Facebook's just a better place for that repetition than an inbox is Chad, do you know anybody who's doing that? The Facebook ad at a high level that I could learn from Facebook. Just how to do what you're saying. I have no idea how to do what you're saying on Facebook. Never done it. Who is there somebody that we could reach out to that could either has training or somebody in the group? That's doing this at a high level that we can just do it. So this is being streamed in the one of these groups. I mean, this, probate mastery alumni happens to be just for people who took this course, but our other group, estate professionals mastermind, look at what we've done there. Look at how we filled out the description. We created a banner and we invite people in using a series of questions to filter who gets. I wish I could point you to someone who this is an idea that I came up with. I don't know, it's been several calls ago, but I don't know of anyone who was executed on it now, before I think they got interrupted. Someone went to chime in. Maybe somebody on here has actually started this as anyone has anyone opened. Yep. Yes I have. Okay, Ronald. Yeah. You started talking about this last call. I thought it was a great idea and I I'm laying the groundwork and this might be valuable. So you mentioned as people that might be valuable to have on this group, you mentioned the directors of funeral homes or mortuaries. I didn't know anybody in that position in my community. I moved to Scottsdale less than a year ago. So I called the church that I am attending and I asked, who can direct me to a good mortuary. And they put me in contact with somebody who does congregational care. Told her what I was wanting to do this, a Facebook group called, Phoenix life transitions. And she loved it. She absolutely loved it. And she says, we've got a grief counselor on staff at our mortuary. And w I would like for you to interview her as well as me. Okay. Terrific. That's great. Then I contacted the, one of the probate attorneys, the one who has sent us a referral already talked to her husband and told him he kind of does their marketing for them. And I told him what it is we wanted to do. And he goes, oh, that's awesome. He goes, of course, Libby wants to be a part of that. She would love to have you interview her for something like that. In fact, we have our own Facebook group that has about 2000 members. We'll advertise it to all of our folks and drive traffic to that event and on your page. And he goes, you've got to make sure that you do that everybody you have on there, make sure that they are driving traffic to. A live stream event where you're interviewing the person. Yeah. Okay, great. I'm going to do that. So that's scheduled for July 28th. We're going to do interview that probate attorney and she only likes to do informal probates. If the families are fighting, she doesn't want to be involved, but she'll come in and she can talk about the informal probate. She can talk about avoiding probate. So she can add some value there. I've got another probate attorney who likes representing the family when the family is fighting and he wants to, he's more, he's more of a litigator. He likes those kind of things. So I'm going to have him, talk about those kinds of situations and and then his partner. Does probate and the state planning, but she's also very much involved in elder abuse and that type of law. So that kind of brings in the whole thing of life transition of an aging spouse or aging parents, where they need to go from an independent living to an assisted living, to skilled nursing, that whole spectrum. So I needed to get somebody for that. So I went back to the church and ask a different person. About who I should talk to and they'd given me somebody, so I'm going to meet with them tomorrow. And they're really excited about being a part of this as well, because this is the community, doesn't know this stuff and they really need to know. And so they see this as a real valuable thing and they understand that I'm wanting to get real estate business out of it. But this is a really valuable thing and they're happy. That's awesome. And it can, it gives it, it gives all those small business owners stage to provide the best value they can and they don't have to learn all of this. So what you're feeling, Jonathan is actually to be used to your advantage because they don't have to feel the way you are. You're going to fight through this. And, but the idea is to get as many. People from the community that can provide value, valuable advice as possible and create an archive. So you can do it as a Facebook live. You can do it as a zoom and then post it later. And they're also put it over on YouTube link, all this stuff together. So what you need first is a Facebook page age with some brand. So that could be Virginia, Maryland, DC, family transition, or something way better. Yeah. Once you have the page, then do a group and then the group belongs to the page. Ronald is something that I want to suggest to you now that you've got that set up. If these, if you have a really good relationship and they have a strong group like that with 2000 members, It doesn't hurt to ask if they mind featuring you. If you link the groups together, so a rising tide lifts all boats. If you can connect those groups together, like as a suggested group is what it's a Facebook suggested group. So if they go into their admin group, their group admin console and add your group as a suggestive group, and then you do the same to reciprocate. You guys all win. And if we do this across everyone on this call, imagine if we all did this across all of our networks and we, so there's power in the network effect. That's what we're trying to do is connect with small business owners who want to have a voice with the same group of people we're trying to serve. And you provide the platform. Therefore you earn the social capital and the principle of reciprocity will feed you for years. This is also where sellable business assets come from. When you do this kind of work and you put your flag in the sand early, it's hard for other people to do the same. It's hard for them to replicate what you have. So you create, you, you stake your claim on this and when you're ready to retire, it's way easier to purchase them. You're building valuable business assets that can one day be sold, regardless of whether you're. Buying probate leads or not. If you do this right, you won't have to buy leads ever again. You'll have it. That's really good. Yep. Ronald, thanks so much for sharing that, man. And for also for taking action on it, I remember, we talked about it and you said you would work on that in the next week and I'm sorry. I forgot, but good job for doing that. Yeah, I appreciate the idea very much. I think it's a great idea. And uh, look forward to seeing it, really blessed. Yeah, guys, listen, I it's four o'clock we ran two hours last week, so to we're going to borrow or make the average, but I do have a hard stop today at four. I should have said that in the beginning. So guys, again, I love this community so much because you guys get more help from your. Peers are as much as you do for me. So I really love that. Thank you guys. All for contributing each other and contributing to this culture. Love these calls. So you guys have a great week. We'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks Joe.