Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast

Differentiating Yourself From The Competition: How To HASHTAG Your ELEVATOR PITCH

June 09, 2021 Chad Corbett, Katt Wagner, and Special Guests Episode 8
Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast
Differentiating Yourself From The Competition: How To HASHTAG Your ELEVATOR PITCH
Show Notes Transcript

Full Show Notes: https://probatemastery.com/probate-mastery-group-training-10

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Group trainings feature live questions and answers from trainer Chad Corbett, guest coaches, and certified probate experts. Participation in live group coaching is free for anyone who has taken Chad's Probate Mastery Certification course. Learn more about the course and enroll:  https://ProbateMastery.com


Time Stamps (YouTube links):
00:00 Introductions
00:21 How to Find a Missing Heir in Probate
08:41 Business Structuring and Liability for Investment Activity
16:21 Pre-Probate: Skip-Tracing and Marketing
23:14 How to Generate Leads Through Seminars
29:21 How To Hashtag your Elevator Pitch
41:03 Getting Prospects To Care About Their Financial Future: The Stepped-Up Basis and Proposed Tax Changes
49:42 Sparking Participation in Zoom Seminars
52:34 The Social Enterprise Approach to Probate Marketing
1:07:16 Turning a Million Dollar Single Family into a Multi-Million, Multi Use Building



These calls are recorded via zoom and can be viewed in video format in the Estate Professionals Mastermind community, YouTube, or in our podcast archive.

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Welcome everybody to the probate mastery, weekly group coaching call Rosie. You're back. Good to see you here, bill gross. Thanks for being here, sir. How can we serve you guys today? Does anybody have anything you're want to work on? Have questions about any topic, any transaction engineering who's got appointments this week. I have a question on the missing heir okay. Hi, everyone Rosie Hayer from Austin, Texas. So I have this better. B our brother passed away. Had no children, no one. He was just a single guy houses left to mom and sister. And one of the sister has passed away when we had one son and that nephew cannot be located. They have they've been waiting on this for six, seven months now. They hired a group of private investigator, according to them, he was on drugs. They don't know where he is. He's nowhere to be found. I reached out to real estate attorney there already with the probate attorney when I met them my registered attorney said that we need to go through a probate. Their probate guy said that you can't do anything. Even if you try sell the property, you're going to come back to court. So I know there are other missing years out there and how should we go about it? And the only way I know to get through this, as well as private investigators and the question usually becomes well, who's going to pay for that. So what I would recommend is file probate. So you, you do have two airs located, correct? You set up two centers. So how are one of them willing to be the administrator. So have one of them file as the administrator and get the letters of testamentary initiate the probate process. At that point, then they can hire, is there any cash in the estate bank account? Yeah, so there's little cash, but sister has money. So I apologize. Let me retrain. They've already hired a probate attorney they've already filed for probate or the private investigator. I just didn't know what to tell them nights that, okay, you've done all this they're probate attorneys saying that you're gonna come back to the court. Even if you sell the property, he's not giving any solution on missing air. Are they with the wrong attorney? They're just following law. Like you, that any attorney is going to look at succession law and say, okay, we know this person exists. We have to have their approval to transfer property. And so you already hired the attorney hired a private investigator. Oh, the sister did. She hired me for asking me what to do next. I was like, I'll get back with you after Tuesday. So I don't know what to deal with. Bill. Do you have something you want to add? Of course it depends on your state law. I've seen it in California, in Los Angeles regularly. They just when the property is sold, the money goes to the state. They don't distribute it to the very end, but in the course of the probate, there's a. Process where they just stipulate what they've done to attempt to locate the air, including hiring a private attorney and the judge approves that's all they can do. All you can do is I can do, and I've seen that be approved numerous times. So why they would tell you that otherwise again, I think whether you're in Texas may be the laws will different, but in California we're pretty strict. That would sell through as long as you make a reasonable effort and document it. Yeah, they aren't even willing to leave his share into an account somewhere in an estate account or something and move forward. They just don't want to sit on this real estate anymore. That's what I would do. If I were in that position, what I would request from that, the attorney proposed to the court is listen we'll ask, grow the distribution amount for this third party. And let's please ask the court to, to approve, to, to approve the sale and even close out the probate with those funds in escrow. If he ever shows up if the family is willing to do that. And I don't know, I'm not an attorney, John Fraker, I don't think is here today. He's interested to hear his opinion, but that's what I would ask. And you would think, the attorney should be incentivized to get it closed. So he gets paid, right? So if they're at some something, unfortunately parade those principle is present everywhere, even in law. If you're not with. Percent that are really good attorneys. It may be time to go find one that's in the 20%, but that's going to keep pushing. I've found this with title companies, like when you have to locate heirs, they come back to me and expect me to do it. And I'm like, no, that's your job. I'll put the deal together. I, you need to get everybody here to sign. And I, and a really good attorney. I really good title company, the title issues. Won't be your problem. There'll be the attorney's problem. They'll move through those things. So same with probate. If they're not getting it done, just say, listen, we're, the family is going to request new counsel. And do you have attorney, do you know any aggressive probate attorneys in Austin yet? Yes. I have three of them and I submitted a call with them right away. But in the meantime, I want you to ask our group today to see if I can do some alternative work. So I'm hoping all three of them will give me a better answer than the one she has right now. Then the question would be was going to fail probate attorneys B. So here's what I was thinking. And maybe you can give me some items, Jen. I was thinking your house is in probate. It needs work. What if I get my end buyer to make an offer on the property in a way that she's able to cover her old attorney's cost and come up with a solid contract where he can release some money to her as artists money instantaneously would be used for something. So she doesn't have to be out of pocket and start the file with the new probate attorney who can look at it up front and say, yeah, I can do this. You guys have been all the technical. We just needed an more creative probate attorney to put the deal together. Huh? No, I'm not an agent yet. I'm approaching the property as an investor. And maybe if they don't like anything, then maybe we can go on the market. That kind of deal. Okay. Sorry. My audio was not clear. So you are you're a principal. You're coming at this from an investor standpoint, not a brokerage. And who's the end buyer you're referencing. Do you know who that is? My investor buyer that I partner up with all the time who fixes the properties. So you've already discussed it with that attorney that you said, the good, the probate attorney you've discussed this with. Yeah. I'm waiting on answers. None of us have answered yet. I just did it today morning. Before I took action on anything I'd want to have that conversation. And what's, what does this process look like? How do we take this over civilly without him digging in or causing problems with the court and and how do we make sure he gets paid? And that's could be a good way to go ahead and bring the offer in with a heavy earnest money deposit and then pay out that probate attorney and then do, and then go ahead and close the real estate, let the money sit in us and the state's bank account. And then if they can find a way to close the probate, then escrow the distribution for that third party. Yeah. I think that's the best you can do. But I think what you're going to like your key component here is making sure you have the, a good attorney. That's going to quarterback this and they're on board with your plan. That's right. That's absolutely right. Finding some creative. Top fraternities. They have like little, their secret bar association. Let me know in Austin reaching out. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Did the, Martha had a good point. If he was on drugs, he could be dead, but I'm assuming the private investigator looked for death certificates, right? Yeah, we did. They didn't find him. They're not able to locate him at all, like any phone number and then like even try to say some certified letters on his phone, all the address, the last rep address that we were able to find no response at all. Did they look through that part of his report include law enforcement checks. I will ask all this, but she was so Belfry because he if your PI wasn't that thorough or it didn't have access, maybe it's time to talk to the local PD and say, listen, can we, can you help me search and see, where was the last last known location? Was that in Texas? No, I would say, start with local and start with local law enforcement and say, listen, we're trying to do a federal search. I mean he could be in jail. And if that PI didn't do a thorough job, I would want to know what he did. What was his exhaustive effort if it was in fact exhaustive, because if he was, if he's on the wrong side of Perino's principle, maybe they didn't get into the federal database and search penal records and he could be in a prison somewhere. If he didn't search nationally for death certificates, he might not be alive. Now at first scrutinized the PI work that you've already had done how good. What was he, how exhausted was the report? Can I see the report? And if you feel like he did a good job and he was exhaustive and checking federal databases for death, incarceration, things like that. Then it's probably time to move toward the alternative plan. How do we move forward with this and escrow, what he's doing in case he ever does show up? That's a very good point, actually. Who would I have my followup conversation now? So that's awesome. Thank you. Very interesting. Thanks, Rosie. All right. Who else has something to troubleshoot? Who's here for their first time. Yeah, this is I don't, I'm not a first timer, but I actually want to set up a separate entity LLC for the branded name that I'm operating under. So I just wanted to know how I should go about setting that up. I know you've talked I've never heard anybody break down the way that you've broken it down to really protect yourself and keep keep entities separate. Now I do have a parent real estate company that I take all of my income. Mainly just assignment deals, rehab income which is separate from any rental income that I have. But I do want to set up one that is strictly for the probate in the state side of my business. That'll be under the branded name, settle your estate, LLC. And I guess the questions that I have as my current parent company is out of Florida. I live in Michigan. How should I structure that? How should I set it up? Should it be a Florida entity, a Michigan entity. And then what kind of liability might, might be exposed there that I could minimize. This is for investment activity only, correct? Yes. And what you're calling the parent company, what's that company do and is it single member? So that is a single member LLC out of Florida. And I'm the sole operator under the, that basically it's just assignment deals and rehab income that comes through that. Okay. So it's not really holding assets, but it just it's just a cash for cash, no assets whatsoever. So you could just open a, a series LLC in Florida underneath of that. If it's basically this under this, is it safe to say it would be the same activity? You're just, yeah, I guess the difference is like I've got a couple of minor expenses, for the calling team and things like that. Maybe it's not even necessary. Maybe I can continue to receive income for the probate deals through my main parent company. I think it is like if you have clearly different business activity, like if what you're doing with the entities are as different, it, then it makes sense. But I think for you, you just need to grab a DBA for that company. So you can have the brand you want and have that be compliant. But you could, you can, BBA is whatever it is now and, the new brand. So if you grab that DBA, you don't have any real assets in the entity to To put it at risk, it's just a pass through. So now my answer would be different if you said I've got 15 houses held in that entity, then I would say, okay let's start to separate, that's a clear that let's make a holding company and then an active, an active investing company. But I don't think you're there right now. What I would say is when you start holding, when you start holding assets, that's when you should probably set up a holding company, leave this one as your active investing entity, anything you want to hold, you'll move over to that. But for me, like everything I have is our single member, Florida, LLC, with the one exception, I still have one Virginia company. That's a self-directed IRA owns that company. But Florida has very business favorable laws. Obviously they have really great tax law with no state income tax. So that's what I would recommend now. Something that you may consider and that's something I've got to meet with my tax advisors on the current proposal, on the table to double the size of the IRS, hire 86,000 new employees and poor billions of dollars into basically auditing software. If you guys are using pass through entities, don't be surprised if you get out of the next 10 years. So just make sure you're above board because they, they seem to be targeting any of those. Beneficial loopholes. Even if you're not breaking rules, it's still your burden to defend yourself in an audit. So as much as I hate to admit that we, I will probably be audited in the next decade. I'm not afraid of it cause I'm not doing anything wrong, but I have taken advantage of what advantages are there for me. So it's talk to your tax advisor about what they think is coming. Maybe I'm being a little too cautious about it. And, but it's not passed yet. It's not law, but that's, it's a proposal. They're looking to clean up as much corporate taxes. They can. That's one thing to be aware of where, with the S Corp designation, otherwise you can just set it up as a single member, LLC. And then it'll just be a pastor everything passes through. But with the escort designation, paying yourself a reasonable salary you can save a significant amount, once you're making over 150,000 a year, and that in that entity, you can say in a significant amount of money on FICA. But right now I think you probably have the entity that you need. I would just get, I think it's 10 bucks to get a DBA through the state of Florida. And then you're covered. Should I be concerned that the majority of my income, if not all of my income comes from the state of Michigan, not from Florida. It's tough with, for you. You're in the state where your receipts are coming from in the state, like correct. You, you are paying Michigan income tax as a person, right? Correct. Yeah. I think you're fine. You have it. It's a pastor. You're getting a schedule C and it's you're filing a Michigan state tax return, so you're paying. Okay, perfect. Awesome. Thank you for that. And Tom, what are you working on this week? What are you buying, man? Before you get started, show it, show us your surroundings. Where are you? Right there. Yes, sir. It's a nice day. It was a 37 degrees this morning in Idaho, and now it's getting up to like low seventies. So it's somewhere around 193. I was wondering why your your picture is a little fuzzy. I I invested in a business where they're doing remote wholesaling and I'm really old school and it makes me really nervous, but I'm just trying to feel my way through it. And so we just put a couple of deals on the contract over in Indiana. Evansville area. So when you say you invested in the business, like you bought the small business, I bought 20% ownership in the business. I met someone through Facebook and it just seemed like a great opportunity. He's got three or four different revenue streams that, he got in there and just hiring a team and just trying to do the remote thing. Cause it sounds like it's, where a lot of people are going right now, someone in our community that I want you to connect with is Dave out of Denver, Colorado. Have you and Dave talk? I do not. I have not. No. And thank you. So look up Dave Gwen, he's been remote wholesaling from Colorado in, excuse me, in Florida. With his primary. I think he may do other lead types, but his primary lead source is probate. So he's really figured out how to systematically build, get engagement, build rapport, and then get these deals done even from 1500 miles away. So make sure you connect with Dave Glenn out of Denver he's in our face. So it's okay. So it's G w E N no. G w Y N I believe Y N copy. Okay. He does it locally and Denver as well as in Florida. So he's yep. That's my bread and butter. I like my backyard. I like being able to, go in and touch it, smell it, feel it, so yeah, but I definitely connect with him. Thank you very much. W whereabouts in Michigan are you right now in Plainwell? Between grand rapids and Kalamazoo, a good friend of mine. His father lives here where we're free labor, we're building backs and helping his dad out for. Oh, awesome. And it sounds like you're going to have some fun on the bikes too. Yeah, we're definitely going to play. We don't work too hard. We just act like it. We're going to build a deck, at least do our duties and then we'll go play. Oh, gotcha. Keep me mine again for the end of the summer, if you want pretend that you're working over here in Spokane area. Yeah, we were looking at hitting that later, probably in September, yeah. On the way back for, yeah, I remember you saying that. So that's why, yeah. All right guys. Who else, anybody have anything to share? Anything that's working well for you and anything? That's not working place you to getting stumped yet? I can see you, Chris. Go ahead. Thanks. I'm big fans of completers, and eventually I'm going to actually start here. So quick question on the pre probates to become, that's becoming a big thing lately. The numbers that they give people for pre-probate is, what are they getting that from? Is it family members that I can't imagine it. It's the dead person's cell phone number. Usually not, it's usually just built off of a skip trace. If you can find a match point between person I and person B. So if you have, if you can reference Jane DOE had a son, John DOE, and he, and you have a known address and this zip code, then can you find a cell phone number for that person? And pre probate is challenging because it's shooting in the dark. Imagine if you have a family with three kids, you have to, it's almost impossible to deduce which one is the most responsible, typically the administrator, whether it's being appointed by the will or being appointed by the survivors, typically it's the most responsible person in the family. So it's, you may call and muddy the water with two or three people trying to figure out which one's right. You may be peeling scabs. I'm not a huge fan of it from a fun prospecting standpoint, because you can really damage your reputation in a hurry, and in a smaller market, especially if you come off the wrong way. So I think it's a pretty, it's a pretty risky way to do it. Now that said there are softer approaches where it's not an inbound song call. You can use Facebook advertising to. Offer them something of value, get them to opt in. So here's a guide for families who have lost a loved one and it's, here's how you handle asset preservation. Here's how you handle asset disposition. Here's what probate is here, but you can do it with a very soft approach. And I think a lot of people, that's a lot of people were selling those leads now, and those it's going to make, they're going to be so closed up. Almost nothing will work. If you want to work in that space, I recommend taking the value first approach, get a really good blog and a YouTube channel and put good content out there stuff. That's actually valuable to them. Like how do you choose the right attorney to help your family? And when they lose a loved one and you can start to talk about probate versus probate exemptions, and some of them aren't going to be probate, to say something is pre probate is. Nah, they don't know. I don't know what the value of that person's a state was and every state has a different smallest state exemption limit. So it's, they're they're the reason I was willing to put my name and a good chunk of my career on probate is because I saw these families and I saw how much of a difference I could make, but also saw that they were ready. So it was a medium on I've pulled the national data from the, all the leads data. What I've, when I've analyzed that it's a meeting of 68 days from the date of death until the date of filing, some families are two years, some go the next day. But as a media, that was 68 days. So what that told me was, and it was consistent with my own business and Roanoke. So typically death happens. Family takes care of the funeral. The family goes over, it goes through heirlooms, and then they just sit with it for a couple of months, eventually. The S the bills come and then the next set of bills come and the cash runs out on. They're like, oh shit, we have got to do something. And that's when it becomes that kind of, that signal flare of petitioning, the court for probate is, Hey, we're ready to deal with this. And for me, that's, that was the earliest point. I was willing to attach my reputation to entering that conversation was that probate. However, I having done this for, a plus eight or nine years, I do see a ton of value in getting further upstream than that. And I'm looking for one of the things I would like to do in my career. What's left of it is that actually find out how to get upstream of estate planning and. 95% of Americans go to their deaf night. They know w in case you guys haven't realized this you're dying every day. Each of us, every one of you guys getting older and dying. I don't know how many days you have left, but you're in the process of dying right now. And I. Yeah, it was that realization to me came at 35. I set up my own estate plan and long-term care plan, my own insurances. And I can't get my own parents like my own family members to do it, but I'm watching my grandparents go through this right now, like struggling to make a decision, do we keep suffering and putting our kids through this or do we sell the family farm? So Medicaid will help us out. And it's a really tough position for people are in. So I really want to find a way to get even further upstream than that. How can we serve these families? So they're not going through probate. We can take them through trust administration reason. I'm saying all that is the way to do that is to put valuable content out to your marketplace. So write about ways to avoid avoid probate, right about ways to avoid this and that or ways to accomplish certain things. And over time, if that's a space you're interested in, if you put enough of that value out there, it will basically it'll insulate your reputation and people will come to you. Long answer really long answer to this in summary, I support it if you're playing the long game and you're willing to do that kind of work and really build like a transitional advisor kind of role. In order to earn that real estate business. So that's kinda my take on it. There's like you can, I would say the easiest way to get started, like direct marketing to that list without having to get on the phones and, really kinda hurt people or hurt your own reputation, get your list, pull it into a custom audience and Facebook match on, first name, last name, phone numbers, and then just run ads like that with that content. Like what running that like what to do when what to do in Des Moines, Iowa, when you lose a family member in de Moines, Iowa, and just have you and a probate attorney talking about, okay this is what happens if you're. If your air had less than 50,000, this is what happens. If they have more than 50,000 probate, this is what happened. Have you had a limit if you do, or had you had a little bit trust, this is what it would look like and it's there's no strong sell there. There's nothing, not even a real strong call to action. That's a trust building piece. So when everyone else is calling Hey, is this John DOE listen, I heard Harry DOE died. He was your father. And John DOE is triggered. His ego says because of this. So while they're trying that approach, if you can put that something out there in front of them, that helps educate them and comfort them and move them through that process, the process of mourning and grieving, but also administer administrating the estate. Then I think over time, you'll you won't have any competition, no matter how many people were buying that list, like with probate. But that's how I would approach it. If you want to, if you want to hunt with a laser, you still can. Thanks to Facebook. Just don't be so direct that you, they know you're targeting them just because of that. Make it look like a general message to the public, and then you won't trigger them. Hey, chat on a follow-up on that. I ended up at a seminar. I thought was gonna be a probate lawyer seminar, and it ended up being a retirement max person here in our city. And so he's basically advising people on how to set up for retirement and that kind of stuff. And how to avoid taxes basically during retirement, watch your taxes. Is there something that we can do to help them where we can work and be a win-win do you think, or is retirement too soon to be talking about that you think too soon to be talking about an estate plan? That's what I'm thinking of. I think a state plan is a good thing but a state plan and how would that be a win-win for our business? All of the person hosting that seminar there, they're a CPA, they're looking lawyer. And their third plan is to help them, a set up of state plans to where they don't pay as much taxes during retirement. Okay. And they already have the attorney. So when they get a hand raised in that seminar, they already have the attorney in mind that, yeah. I talked to him about that. We had a meeting, I talked to him afterwards and I said, look, we can help you. If you want to do something, I've got a guy here that will help you set up the trusts or states or, they don't do it themselves. But it's like here, this is definitely, I hope you've already considered them a member of your team. That is a really good CPA to have on your team. I've found that with a lot of CPA is that's the one team member that's really hard to fill the spot because they're like, yeah, man, they just need to file a final tax returns, no big deal. And I'm like, come on, man. If you're willing to answer their questions, you can take, take their business. Yes, that client is not at that. Person's not going to be a client they're dead. But if you can serve these people and connect them with just like this guy is doing, connect them with a registered investment advisor to help them understand what the options are for the life insurance distribution, connect them to attack, to long-term care insurance agents, like whoever it might be. But and Martha said, look for Martha jumped in. If if you've got a microphone. Yeah. In my previous life, I was an enrolled agent. I did a state and trust tax returns. Enrolled agents are different than CPAs in that they focus on tax. They've passed the two day exam on tax law and might be a better person in this situation. I saw you made a comment on that. What do you mean by enrolled agent? You take a two day exam given by the IRS on tax law, which entitles you to practice before the IRS represent the public just as a CPA, could all the way up to tax court. And if you wanted to take more classes and pass another exam, you can actually go to tax court. So there'll be in the tax bracket. How would you find it? Enroll it. Ask a basic question here. Yeah, there's an organization, national association of enrolled agents. Also, you can just Google enrolled agents and there should be some coming up. And these enrolled agents, when you say a role, their role with the IRS issues, is that what it is? Yeah. They, an enrolled agent is qualified to prepare all kinds of tax returns and represent the public for audits, whatever. So you, do you deal with the IRS? Just the same as the CPA would, except a CPA does more than just taxes. CPA does all sorts of things. Enrolled agents, focus on taxes. Okay. And there's no state licensure with that. Just a federal designation. Correct? Just federal. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. It's good to know. You've got that person in your community, Chris, like that's probably a really good partner that you can do some things with. And I would encourage you to find a role in the seminars. Like the next time they do one, have a seat in the room, be a part of their panel to answer real estate questions that those folks might have. That could be a good way. That's one of the things, Roger. Lacey's not, I don't, I haven't seen it. I'm here today, but he's really good at finding places to add value. Radio shows, courtrooms, you name it. Bill gross is actually, he's really good at that too. Like he attends court just to help people with real estate questions while they're in that environment. And he earns business for that. So at some point, if I were you, I would want to seat in that room every time they do a seminar, be there as the real estate guy. And you never know. These people obviously have assets to protect or they wouldn't be there. So it's a pretty damn good room in the prospect. Dan. So get in there and engage with them, try to find ways to provide value. For example, one of the things you could talk about in the next meeting is what happened. If the step up basis goes away on a federal level, what does that mean for your family? And as a real estate professional, you get up and talk about that. Let the CPAs back you up and then you build trust. So you know, it's, we have over 60 million baby boomers will pass away in the next 40 years. These folks are going to be of the age, their friends are going to be losing their parents, their aunts, their uncles, like they're going to be able to, if you build trust and you build that reputation in that room, if you have 30 new people every month and you can do something like that, holy crap, man, how many referrals are you going to get? Like you're going to be that guy, like the guy, the real estate guy that you can trust to not sell you, but lead you. And that's what I would say you should do with this is don't like, I would look again a little bit longer term, but I think you can monetize the hell out of that relationship by providing value to them and the people in their seminars. But you're going to get referrals and have some sort of a leave behind. So you get an opportunity to leave your, your contact info with them. Maybe make a, A step up basis fact sheet with your brand on the bottom and talk about, like this is what the current, like in column a, this is what is the current step up basis rules are and the history of that. And then column B, this is, these are the proposed changes of, for 20, 21 and beyond. Anyways, I'm just spit ball on. That's one thing I think that CPA would be crazy not to want you to come and talk about that. Okay. Awesome. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate it. Yeah. Lots of new names here today, guys. Any anyone taking the course and there's any questions you have or anything you, you don't fully understand. Rosie. I see your hand up now. Sorry. I missed you. That's okay. So why don't you ask a question on Chad on how to do something that I'm already doing in a better way. I am a part of investor group that I consistently show up once would good week, twice a week. It's a zoom call, it's semesters all over Texas, right? That I'm a part off. And I have selectively marketed as myself as a realtor investor so that they, Mr. That are a good match, become partners with me. But I'm also realizing that I'm leaving a lot of business on the table. If everybody doesn't know me at full capacity. My biggest concern is that when I show up and I just make an introduction that, Hey, I'm a realtor and Mister friendly realtor. First of all, I just don't want to do that. I want to have a too expensive value that clearly sends a message to the people who are going to be good fit second a little bit, but I've tried to raise my head. I become a magnet of a bunch of CNBS for investors, which I don't want to be. I don't want to do a bunch of CMS for the deals that put him off for as long, like I want to partner up let's truly add value and I have access to a lot more resources than just a realtor. So it sounds like you have dealt with that world or work in that environment. How did you position yourself as a realtor who was valid, capable offer investor, but you didn't become a magnet for, I've been licensed since 2005. And I was a real estate agent. That's what I called myself. I laws in a realtor until let's see. was briefly at snow shoe for a little while in 2007, like we, we became part of the association, then it went away. And I w and then one in Maui, we were members, but I've never really connected with that. The title realtor, to me, that's just a, that's a professional designation. It's not how I would define my career. So I've always looked at myself as a real estate expert or a real estate consultant. And when I got into Roanoke where I was competing with everyone in that market who had been there their entire career, and I knew nobody and had no, no network. I used that to my advantage to differentiate myself. So I started to as I was a, real estate advisor, and the first thing people say is what do you mean? And boom, that's what you got because you do away with all of their assumptions. So when you say realtor, it has negative connotations. We work in an industry. That's made up. It's, there's an 88% failure rate. The three-year mark, like it replaces itself all the time. And quite frankly, most realtors aren't respected. And for me it was like, no, I need people to I don't need people to assume they know something about me because I'm using this designation. So I just stripped that out of everything. I would as far as if I, and I was more Chad eventually I quit using business cards. Like I had business cards from my investment business cards from my real estate team. And like I differentiated, I was managing two brands and it became a lot. And I eventually just put all that down, quit giving business cards. And when I would meet someone, they're like, Hey, what do you do? I'm like, oh, I ride motorcycles, climb rocks hang out with my family fish. And they're like, no, professionally. I'm like, oh, I thought you meant me. And all of a sudden they're back on their heels. They're like, who the hell is this guy? But it's different. I'm creating a differentiating point in their memory and an emotional response. So they're not going to forget that. So once, once I've gotten them open with that, I'm like, oh, I'm actually a real estate professional. And then I'm intentionally quiet because I want to see if they're going to engage with me. What do you mean? Like you buy things or you're a realtor or and then I'll say something like, yeah, And then I'll be quiet again. And it's you'll filter out some people like the people who are going to use you, I find they'll go away. Like they'll awkwardly run out of questions to ask and you can always engage and be like, Hey, listen, it's what I do is a lot different. That's why I thought, just wanted to make sure what we were talking about here and you can rope them back in the right person. We'll be like that's interesting. Tell me more about that. Like your real estate professional. What's your specialty and they'll start asking good questions. And that's when you know you have a good investor on your hands. The, when I was first building my buyers list of my investor list and Roanoke, that's the approach I took. I didn't want to be just a realtor and I didn't really feel like I had the. I have bought and sold a couple houses, but I still didn't feel like with a seasoned investor who was holding 50 to a hundred assets, if I'm out there saying, my title is equal to yours, I don't think that's fair either. And I didn't want him to, I didn't want him to compare and be like, oh, you're not talking to investor. I'm an investor. I have 50 houses. So I just went with real estate professional, real estate expert, real estate advisor. And then the questions started coming and my best buyers came from those conversations. Like Mike, my, the guy that ended up being the contractor I used on all of my flips. I sold it. I re uh, literally ran the guy out of money, but his balance sheet. Exploded. I ran him out of cash because he was like, I have never, he's we go through three or four realtors a year because they just won't freaking do the work and never bring us the right deals. He's I've never met anyone. Like you, you ran me out of money in three months. I'm like, great. How can we make more? Let me help you scale your contracting business. And then I'll have more money to spend on, on, you can spend on commission and that conversation started that way. So what I would recommend is get the hell outside of the box and just get rid of any title that anyone else in the room might be using, get rid of. And you could be, Rosie, the Rainmaker what, whatever it might be, the title doesn't matter as much as the engagement that title gets you. And you may consider going away from things like business cards. I know most people roll their eyes at me when I like. I don't do digital business cards. Like when someone says, Hey, man, let's keep in touch. You have a card I'm like, no better yet. Hand me your phone and I'll put my information in their phones. I know it's there. Or, things like that. So I do something that's very different because it creates that, that memory and that sticking point. So they never forget me. And that's how I've done it again though. That idea might not scale for everybody, but that's how I was able to really make myself stand out. Yeah, no, I'm very much appreciating what you're saying, Chad, because I have been a realtor alone, and when I didn't have awareness around all the things that I'm doing now, and the biggest challenges that you pick up a phone, or you talk to a client who is a little bit of a problem, And if they think that you're the normal person who just buys and sells and they have a bigger problem than that, there's good luck on getting that person on the phone again. Or there was always a commission fight. I got tired off that pump conversation, junctions you can handle I'm really enjoying, not being a realtor and being a real estate advisor, even with normal center leads because this lady was expecting me to call her back with her missing air issue. She's I'm not worried about her going to other people because we have such a big rapport and she has been able to dig her problems so much further with me because I'm not just a realtor. So I am acquiring this acquiring this opportunity with investment group where these investors who joined these investment already eyes and stuff. They have deals. They have centers that they have come across, who needs to get their house sold. They want to partner up with me. And I'm hard wanting them to come with me just for a CME. I don't want to do it messing with me. So I want to know how do I think you answered my question that I should probably just show up in the zoom calls and they'll start taking that spark where every vendor is talking about what their they have to offer. I see. I, what else do advisor? Here's something to try and I know you have the personality enough to stand up with this, go into your zoom settings and where your name is. Put a hyphen and hashtag not just a realtor. And the next time you show up on that zoom call, it's going to say Rosie hair, hashtag not just a realtor and that you can start that conversation. Seriously. Everyone on this call was looking at your name right now on the bottom line. Is Chad. So start it there and make that part of the conversation I help. What I'm seeing is not just dot. You may even take your name off and just do hashtag not just the realtor, but things like that. And you can, when the zoom call begins, jump over and chat and be like, Hey guys, my name is Rosie. You can copy and paste this on every fricking phone call. Hi, this is Rosie, not just a real realtor hire. Here's here are the ways I think I can help everybody today. Thanks for including me. And start initiate that in every phone call paste that in the zoom chat before the call or when the call starts. So you build your damn brand in there and get the attention your, yeah, because I feel like, but they don't know how to put the money together, how to talk to a Senator. Like we have so much training as realtors. The realtors to speak with that Sutter and have that extensive knowledge and they are willing to do the deal and I'm getting deals and this is without the marketing. And I want to not show up. I feel ready for that announcement that, Hey, let's do deals together. So I like I'm going to actually go today. It's today. Me, you may have you I'm sure. You've probably heard this story, but the way I did this as my second REI meeting, I was driving. 125 miles across two mountains just to go to the REI real estate investors association meeting, because I thought I was going to move to Roanoke. What I noticed and in these conversations, they're like, who are you? What are you doing? I'm like, oh, I'm a real estate professional. And they're like what the hell does that mean? I You're a realtor. No, actually I'm not. I'm moving, I was just getting into investment. I'm moving from Hawaii, looking for a market where I can invest. I've got cash, I'd be willing to be a lender. I would be willing to partner on deals. I'm looking for a mentor and I was trying different things on for size. What I realized is in that room, Literally almost everyone was operating their business anecdotally. So they didn't really know what the median price was and this code or that zip code. They didn't know the difference between the median and the average. They didn't know what cap rate was used. And, for residential, they didn't really under like they, they were just operating off of anecdotal, their own experience. So I was like, aha, here's an opportunity. So what I did, I went and pulled a year's worth of MLS data, a year's worth of GIS data combined it. So I had a whole picture of the real estate market and I boiled it down into reports that showed by zip code. And by type, so cash financed or cashed institutionally financed, our owner financed. And then of the institutionally financed, which loan products were used in each zip code, what the median price was, what the average price was and what was the difference between a convert, a retail deal and a wholesale deal showing that. And I made a report that just blew their minds because no one had ever done that. It took me quite a bit of time, but everything changed that third meeting. Or the, I guess it would have been the fourth meeting, the third meeting, I talked about Alice. I'm like, Hey man, look at this. Did you do, you know all these things? He's like, where the hell did you get this? I'm like, I made it. And he's you're presenting next week. And those are the guy that started it after I presented. And one of my best friends in the world is still like that night we stood there and talked two o'clock in the morning, in the parking lot. Cause he was a finance and computer science major at Virginia tech. And he was like, oh so Mike is he's now because of that night, he got into wholesaling and he is now running. He's gone about four and a half. He'll probably break $6 million in revenue this year as a wholesaler. And he started that night. I've got lifetime friendships from that from doing that I've sold hundreds and hundreds of houses to the investors, but I only had to do it one time. Like that one time was enough. It's oh that's all. That's Chad, he's different because he did, he does this. And these guys picked me up and one guy picked up the phone and he said, Hey man, I know we haven't talked in two or three years. I'm in a bind. Can you get me out? And he had 58 houses that he needed to drop like a hot potato because he put his head in the sand and let the clock hit 12. Like the clock was on 1155. And luckily I had a relationship with the banker. I was able to hold them at bay and blow out his portfolio. But I hadn't been to that group in two, two or three years. I hadn't even showed up to meetings, but that one thing that I did made such a difference. So I want each of you to like, think what is that unique value that you can put into that group to create that, that boom, you remember when that got did that? I don't know. It may be some towards some sort of market analysis. Every three is different. Some are more professionally run than others, amazing speakers every week. And it's hard to find anything they haven't done, but who can you bring to the table? What can you bring to the table? That's really going to everyone where everyone in the room is going to go. I'll be damn. That lady taught me something tonight. And again, why not? Why the step-up basis thing, take something fresh right now, go educate you that, educate yourself on the history of the step up basis on what and think about what that means for the average American family who has to sell the home because they need, the 80% of net worth is held in real estate and there's only $24,000 in liquidity and the average senior citizens, net worth. So what does that mean? What does that mean for Austin? What does it mean for small businesses? Multi-generational small businesses. If the family can't afford to settle out the estate and they have to sell the small business and half of that wealth goes to taxes, then what does that, so maybe bring things like that are a bit contentious. A bit unsettled there. It's a theoretical conversation at this point until we have the pissing match it in DC, but it will get you remembered. I'd be like, oh, that one thinks different. She's actually seeing that this is going to fragment, family, but generational wealth. And they're going to think, wow, she must not just be just a realtor. All right. I'm going to go talk to her hashtag not just the realtor. So anything like that would really make you stand out and make get them to think outside of the box. No, thank you so much. I'm definitely going to give it a shot and And 30 ones too. Rosy. So the two things that I think are on the table, I don't, this isn't a political conversation. This is a generational wealth conversation, but I think two things that really threatened housing and threatened. Generational wealth and housing is the step-up basis going away as part of the proposed changes. I think that's going to be terrible for a lot of not the Uber wealthy, but families who have small businesses who have family farms that have been together that have been, Salvage over years. And then the other thing is the 10 31. If the changes come through on 10 31 that limit your 10 31 advantage to a half, a million dollars that is going to drive institutional money and the residential assets and create a hell of a lot of competition for every investor in that room. So if you really want to stir up some concern and you want it to apply to every asset and every seat in that room, go educate yourself on the history of 10 31, the benefits of 10 31. And it's not frankly, it's not as beneficial as most people think. If you're always increasing your income, if you're just running from, it's not a very good game to play. It seems attractive, but you're just going to pay a higher tax rate in the future. So for me, it's not anything I ever wanted to do. I would rather invest from taxable accounts and. Get, write offs and try to build my real estate portfolio into a damn retirement account. But some people are already heavily invested in those and they're going to be forced to continue to play that game. There'll be forced to buy lower priced assets. So they're not showing those big, massive gains, like they were in office or retail or multi-family. So talk about how that can affect Austin, Texas. You've got some insane valuations in that city now. And a lot of that money came in as 10 31 money and there's REITs that are doing 10 30 ones. There's Delaware, statutory trust that bought up those old industrial buildings and turned them into condos and that's 10 31 money. So what happens when they get done with that disposition? What are they coming after? Are they going to pay that giant tax bill or are they going to be competing with you over here in the suburbs? And start that start be the one that starts that conversation in the group and bring a CPA to the table and be like, Hey, listen, I'm not here to just start things up. There's some things that we can do preemptively to protect ourselves and get ready for this. I'd like to introduce you to CPA extra, like not just a CPA bill Jones and bring that guy to the table, bring the expert or bring a 10 31 expert, but try to make it somebody from your local market, from, wherever it is, if you can find them in Austin. But anyway, those are just two things that are like right now, very relevant and very unknown. And like I said, it'll be a theoretical conversation, but you can show, listen I'm on the leading edge. I'm a thought leader in this space. And I'm going to bring you what information I think might be valuable to help you protect your assets and mitigate some of these risks that I see coming. And they'll they'll respect the hell out of that. No, I really like it. I think the 10 31 it's anything that impacts us supply and demand. Like these trusts people, buying properties at large scale is increasing the demand, which is driving the prices up. So anything that is impacting the supply and demand in real estate market, I can, I really liked what you said because I can bring all my alliances and call them not just to CPA, not just in IRS specialists. There's so much more than that. And they happened to create, I can just create a little own group like that, where I interview people and my investors get to see it. And my buyers get to see I think you gave me some really good head start here. And I'm excited. Because the deals I was doing with one investor already, I was like what's stopping me from doing it with everyone who was willing to do it. There are some people who are just wanting a small CMA. I can have a little minimum CME. It's not a big deal, but I didn't want to become that person because. In investor group, I have learned one thing. You got to have a little bit of a thick skin because Rutgers are roasting. I don't have a problem with I'm not doing anything by being a realtor. That's why it doesn't offend me. But I also, I'm very dying to ask the question. What do you see as an ideal realtor partner life? Who do you see that you haven't manifested that in y'all's world yet, but has anybody taken the time to really go down the survey and what is an ideal image of a perfect realtor investor partner? The one who had a sense, Marquis you're going gone, antidotal knowledge. You don't know how we would write a contract or a how to negotiate to a fees or even work with title or make sure it's even many to close or not. So the real estate knowledge is missing, but you are in front of senators, putting properties under contract. You need someone who can verify, there's a huge partnership here, but until I have clarity around what value I would like to personally show up for at scale it's hard. It was hard for me to plant my stake and say, I'm a realtor. Just come to me because I didn't want all the attention. I wanted an intention with purpose racking, my brain, to try to think of the name of it. Piece of technology in my mastermind. And in order to really get people engaged in the beginning of the zoom call, oftentimes do a survey, like where in the world are you today? And we like, in real time, you'll click a link in the chat, type it in, and then it produces like a word cloud on the page. There's others where you get like the same software you can ask, like survey questions okay. Of everybody in here who's ever, like how many realtors have you had to go through while building your investment business and take it, take a poll and they can see real time. Yeah, I hit that. Okay, sorry. Anyways, I'll try to find that software, but what, where I'm going with this is you could, as long as the members are willing to let you do you have, what's the format? Do you have an opportunity to do it's a very similar format as you, the main person who started that group, like the chat off the group is hosting it. I highlighted me I'm gracefully more than enough, right? Like I w position like the main person who started the REI group, the investor group that are part of their investors all over Texas, and every week around 69 to 70 people show up and I get so much attention in that, that I'm not monetizing on it because I don't have clarity on my audience. Not everybody in there is going to be working with me at scale. But, so this is a, it's a fun way to. Be remembered in the group, but also get something like you could put up a type form and just drop a survey link in the chat. And a few people are going to fill it out. But if you can get the sponsor of the call, like the host of the call, if you can get them to agree Hey, that sounded like something fun to do. Hey guys, listen this week Rosie, not just the realtor Hayer had a couple of really interesting questions that she asked if she could ask in front of the group. And I really think we're all gonna learn something here. So Rosie go ahead and drop the link and then you drop a link in the chat and then he'll actually display it. So you can collaborate with him. But like the questions I would be looking for is, how many of you work with realtors versus source your own deals off market? And then you want to, you'll see a percentage. You'll see 75% work with realtors, 25% don't and then ask another question is what's the number one? Thing that realtors do for you today and then put up like a multiple choice. It could be, it might come at you in a word cloud, or you could do like a multiple choice with six options, more than just two or three. But it's going to show you in real time, 70 people, their opinions and their like what they're currently doing, and then start getting into the things like what is the biggest problem you have when trying to find an investment friendly realtor and put those things out there. And so anyways, you could do it where it's an interactive survey almost. And I wish I could find, I wish I could remember the name of that software. Yeah. Yeah. It's something against Regis saying I'm an investor and I'm a realtor and not just a realtor, but I have a real estate license. I'm looking for partners. Yeah, no that's good. But I'm looking for things for creative ideas for her. Absolutely. That's what she's saying. I'm looking for ways to her, for her to stand out on a zoom call. But anyway, if the organizer is willing to let you do that, you can do a survey that everybody could learn from. Even the guys who like who aren't going to work with you, they're going to be like, I'll be damn, I guess I'm not the only one. And you like they can see that other people are having trouble. But yeah, and Martha said, anything you can do to really drive that home. Listen, I'm a realtor and I can help you there, but I'm predominantly here because I want to provide, I, I wanna, I want to do deals like that's a job and being an investor as a career, the one at the breakfast school thing I had done is that because I was noting probably from here, I took this. Title and I advertised in the investor group because these people are coming across deals. We don't want to buy work with an investor. They want to sell on the market. And a lot of real good referrals started coming from the investor group for that reason. So they do see me as a probate specialist. Yeah. So that was a good vehicle for listings. But I think I got enough content to work on. I'm going to show up as an artist, realtor. I think it's a really good time to be with them. The survey, because if you get add 10 31 exchange of the CPA conversation, I think between this three, I can stir up enough audience to get something out and I'll bring back to the team. Mike, no last name. I see you. I'm a hand up. Hey Chad. So I've been wanting to call for the last two weeks. I need some ideas I've been with ATL as a subscriber, getting the leads in Northern Colorado and Southern Wyoming since November. I've only had one lead I've talked to, and she's going to list with a realtor. This I'm an investor only. She's going to leave a list with a realtor this week, which I've known for awhile. I got her a cleanup crew back in February or something like that. I helped her get a, take care of the auction piece of it, which is all fine and dandy. But I'm looking for ideas on what you think I should do spend what, seven months, eight months and only one lead come out of that. About 30, 30 to 50 is probably the average number in in my county, but I'm just looking for ideas. What do you think I should do next? Where should I be going here? What what'd you Colorado county. Is it on the east side or west side? No, it's weld county about a norm. Okay. I know where it is. So you're on the east Northeastern part of the state. Yep. Yeah. So your data is seasoned. That's one of those markets where they're actually holding your probate data until the probate data recording, where, and when it becomes a matter of public record is actually upon completion. So most of the assets are going to go ahead and transfer while probate is open, but a number of them will not like they will go ahead and change title, inherit the property, and then they'll sell it. So it's a longer game to play in Colorado. Now I have, we have brokerage when I was with all the leaves, I coached a gentlemen and Laramie weld and one other county. Up there, right where you are though. And in four months we came up short, he was a Mike ferry guy. He was all about repetition. He was all about tracking every metric and we were just hitting walls. And I'm like, man, I won't give up. If you don't Fred. And he's like, all right, let's keep going. Eventually he called me and he's four months and he's man, I've got no ROI. What do I do? And I'm like, I want you to stop paying for the leads, but I want you to keep prospecting because I just, I do not believe everybody's been helped. And we went for another two or three weeks after stopping. So we were like four and a half months in and he nailed six deals in one week. And he's basically held that pace from then forward. So it was a slow buildup for him, but what he found is the people that went ahead and inherited the property and still hadn't done anything. They were the biggest procrastinators of all the procrastinators. They procrastinated so much. They couldn't even make a decision. They went ahead and transferred title into their names and then eventually they would finally call him and get it done. So probably not the answer you wanna hear. You're eight months in. It's usually not that long of a game. Usually inside of six months, you've built some momentum and you're doing deals. So I would look at, what your offer is and, do you know if you have any competition there right now, do you know of other people who are specializing in it? I don't think so when I talked to the team over there, Bruce, and whatever the gal's name is Darcy I think I had competition in Larimer county, which is over in Fort Collins, but I think they've dropped out now and definitely nobody in weld. And I got some archive leads out of Laramie county, Wyoming, which is Cheyenne. So yeah. Now with Wyoming, I don't think it's the case. I think the data there is reported upon, petition. So that that doesn't actually hold up on, on the Wyoming side. We got to look at your offer, right? Are you offering brokerage services even though you don't care to fulfill those? Is that part of your offer? I've not offered brokerage services. I was doing the calls from November to January and I went ahead and I think I emailed you or something. I use Steve Lindover, voice logic since February cycles, but I don't think brokerage is part of that. Okay. There's a reason we tell you to build a team and offer all of these things because yeah, we're only going to directly monetize one or two of them, but it really differentiates us. So usually when people are coming up short it's because the marketplace is responding and saying your offer is not valuable to me. So let's look at, the letters that, that you have at all the leads. Those were all ones that I proved out with my own dollars. There's one that you might want to try, and it may be a little too we will for you, I don't know, but there's one called probate social enterprise. And I wrote that as I had actually, you mail it to the decedent. But I wrote that it's more, it looks more like a farming letter and it's a an tongue in cheek the way it's written, but it's you know what we do really? Isn't a big deal. We just, like Rosie, we'd just do a, B, C, D E F shit, like all these things. But that one is, I wrote that letter for Colorado Springs because one of the same situation was happening south of you. So I wrote the probate social enterprise letter, and I also wrote the probate home it's house value or home value. But anyway, those two letters were written for your market and the worked both of them did, and it was just a different approach than anyone else. So check out those two letters. If you go into the subscriber portal, mailbox motivator, if they haven't moved them around, you should be able to sign both of those. But maybe try to change up your letter and your offer and your phone script to include, to be a little more inclusive. And just like I was telling Rosie, the hashtag not just a realtor, that's just, it's a differentiator. So the probate social enterprise letter basically says, Hey, my name is Chad. I'm the owner of a social enterprise here in Laramie county. What that means is, and you just start to explain it to them. So you're, they're like, what in the hell, who is this guy? I don't really understand what he does. And you're building up curiosity when they flip the page over. It's like we find real estate to be the biggest challenge for most families. Here are the options, option one, do nothing, let it sit there and incur costs and get it in worst condition. And like I said, it's a little tongue in cheek. It's facetiously written option two. Transitioning into a family owned rental property, option three, sell it wholesale, option four, fix it up. And it introduces them to like, to show them these are all the things you could do. So instead of you mailing them or talking to them as just an investor, you're saying here are all the things you can do, including sit on your ass and let this property lose value. It's okay. That's your prerogative, but I think change your approach for a bit. Are you okay, cashflow wise, I'm in corporate America, that's that's the reason, one of the reasons I was doing the column, the beginning of they hired Steve. So yes. It's not breaking the bank, so I got a little bit of money. We can go at this for another couple of months, but I got a call it Proust as well. Maybe on Thursday I am, and they're doing it eight all the way, just doing the direct mail amounts. And I've done the four touches, I think, on all of them to our types of Cheyenne. One in December and one just, I think in April and when I say different things, tell me what you've done to build your attorney referral network. I have three attorneys I've talked to just through the court conversation and Rhea meetings. I was going to the, on the suit. We do zoom calls. So I've got three plus an additional attorney that I talked to. I've not done anything to market to them other than just, if I, if they're at the meeting, I'll touch base with them or on the call, I touch base with them. Okay. In Wyoming, this is probably not that relevant in Colorado because of the delay in recording, but any given market. In the country, usually 20% of probate leads that are recorded on the petition do not have legal representation. So you can find those ones in, in, look at your leads and look at the attorney column. If you see that they don't. If there are ones in Laramie, Wyoming, that don't have an attorney use that to open the door and start some new relationships up there to say, Hey, listen, we reach out to every family with an offer multiple services, but every month I noticed there's five or 10 that don't have an attorney. So when we talk to them, we all, we suggest that they, go ahead and hire an attorney now versus later cleaning up the mess. I'd like to find an attorney that I can trust to refer those, to have I called the right number or how have I showed up in the right office and see if you can use those pro se or pro per the, those without legal counsel. See if you can use those to build some more relationships in Colorado. That's a big part of the game. If you want to get the early, get there during probate, the only way to know is to pay $5 court access and go in, and then $5 per lead to get each one out during, while it's in the petition or the probate phase, or get to know every damn attorney you can. And just don't worry about buying probate leads, get them from the attorneys. There's still value to those leads that. Clear probate. And some of them still hold real estate, and this is just anecdotal, but I would guess it's maybe 10% of the estate. So I actually go ahead and transfer title, and the probe at the close out the probate, and then they'll sell the asset. So there's obviously value to those, but if you, I would say double down on change your letter and change your offer B have a more, have an offer that can appeal to every single family. So make sure you're talking about all the different things you can do to help the social enterprise letter does a good job at that. But also really work those attorneys, man. What's your gig or your job in corporate America? What's your W2? I run it telecom construction doing, fiber back haul 5g work and doing that for 35 years. Man, you got $2 trillion pointed at you. You should take what you take, what you learned. I'll do this with you. I'm trying, I'm looking for small business plays in the way of that infrastructure package. I'm looking to buy like bucket truck companies. I'm looking to buy fiber companies like, so like honestly, man, take what you've learned in your W2 and get in front of this infrastructure package. Okay. Anyway, so those are some ideas. Let us know if there's, if you read those letters, see what you think, let us know how it works out. And there's always something that works, Mike, this is what I tell the Colorado people. Even from the very get-go, if you're going to commit to this and the, in Colorado, you've got to be patient until we can find what works and keep raising your hand. If you do something and it doesn't work, let us know we'll come. There's always a better idea. How long should I have tried that for if I change it again, should I just three months you think, or four months, or what's your opinion? If I changed letters, how long let it run? How many you, yeah, eight months of leads in two counties. Yeah. So you have almost 500 leads, right? I'm a must at 30 to 50, a hundred. It's a little low, probably 180 to 300, probably it's 30 to 60, last month was the highest, I think it was 58. Yeah. What I would do first is think of this as a campaign. So if you like pick one, I'll pick whichever of those letters you like the most. Pushed fired off to every single lead you've ever gotten. And then do a follow-up campaign on the phone. That's consistent with that letter. So if it was the probate social enterprise letter, you want Linda's people to say, hi, this is Chad Corbin. I'm calling from ABC, probate or a social enterprise right here in Laramie county. And we try to reach out to every family before, during and after probate, I noticed that you were the administrator of an estate. Is that still the case? Okay, great. Listen, Mike is not available today, but anyone who, most, we see most families struggle with, the assets in the estate. Have you guys dealt with all of the assets and especially the real estate. Okay, but almost like a survey from my social enterprise. They've never heard that before. They're like, what the hell is a social enterprise? Whether they say it or not, that's what they're thinking and what you can say as well. We're thinking of us as altruistic entrepreneurs. We actually care more about what the value to you is and what value we get back. And if we know if we're giving value, we know we always get more than we deserve, yada, yada. But change that conversation up to match the letter and run back through those five. So 500 letters, 500 calls, and then take what you've learned. Like the ISA should, they should keep track of they should know what objections they're hearing or how many of them sold. But learn what you can from that. And then we'll adjust from there. I wouldn't say, put that same letter on back and pay for four of them. Let's do little tweaks and tests and then re regroup and look at it. What did we learn from that? And then other ideas will surface. Yeah. And Tom was suggesting, more follow-up calls and you actually making the calls, but it sounds like you either don't have the time or the energy after your really serious day job. It's more time of anything. Like I said, I tried it from November to January and psycho, like the new dude new year kicked in and a rural broadband is going, so yes. I thought Linda, Linda, I'm guessing he does a good job. He's got a good team. I took you guys' opinion of that. I suggest him because I've been in his call center and I I've seen first round campaigns and the first one I ever did with his people was in orange county, Florida in Orlando, which is a really competitive market and how they had off a hundred phone calls, seven appointments. So that's outstanding for a car, for sure. I think it has a lot to Colorado, and the whole probate process here in Colorado, eight months, just getting a little long, but I got a little bit more basis to me. And I liked that idea. Like last week, I'll pick a new letter, social media letter, or a social engagement letter that in mail to all 500 and see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for writing your hand, man. Don't ever hesitate it. Keep coming back until we find the idea that works. I have yet to be skunked. Colorado is the hardest damn market that you could ever do this in and not to discourage you. I've coached people through and well into six digits of income there. It just took some time. And you might also, we talked about connecting with Dave Glen on the beginning of this phone call, you might also want to connect with Dave. He's not competing with you. He's working down in Denver and over in Florida, but you might want to connect with him and learn from him. He's done a really good, he's been doing this for. Gosh, I bet five years now. And he's on these calls sometimes. I don't see him today, but you may want to, you might want to buy him some beers, pick his brain. Yup. I already friended him as soon as you mentioned his name. Okay, cool. And here's the one thing I would like to say that in my years of doing this, I've never seen anybody quit, but that's just, that's not true. I would say, and you don't have to make a commitment to be maybe to yourself, don't quit until you've got at least broken, even on this. Like it works everywhere. If you're willing to stay engaged, at least stick around long enough that I can get you to make your mind, show you how to make your money back. I hate people like you realize it's like selling a shitty stock, right? Yeah, no, it'd be great for sure. Thanks for being here. Mike fed hashtag suave. How are you hashtag not all you have to do is get a VEST you look sharp, brother. I've seen you walking around this beautiful structure. Where are you? Yeah, I'm at a broker open. Actually. I have a broker open right now and I have offers due tonight. It's a cool house, man. I was looking at when you were walking around earlier, I'm like, holy. Yeah, it's nice. There's a really cool outdoor area too. That has like a fire pit and a cabana and all that stuff. That's really cool. I'll take you there. In the meantime, I'll ask you a question. Since you were talking about buying people beers, I'll gladly buy you a beer. If you send me an investor, I have a,. Listing coming up now, San Diego, believe it or not. I figured it out. And the client, I get the grandma doesn't trust anyone. And she's no, I want you to handle it. All right, so she's 95. I got to go there because she doesn't have computers or anything, no DocuSign. So I've got to go do all the paperwork with her tomorrow sorry on Saturday. But I was thinking since it's a single family residence and, but it's zoned R three it's realistically for a developer. If any investors feel free to let this guy know, I'll send you a lot of beer as much beer. Let's do this. Fed, send me an email with the details. You know what you're pricing it at. I know they want to walk away after commissions and everything with 1 million, I was originally thinking of pricing it at nine 99. Cause a single family residence built in 1957, a lot of illegal stuff, but realistically, since the zoning is R three, I don't think anyone's going to keep it as an SFR, but instead it's just going to tear it down and build multiunit. They partner, if they end up making more money, will they partner? Yeah. I love that. I want to show up there since I essentially basically I have no competition. I know the personal rep. It's not okay. They have a trust and because the grandmother who owns the house is 95. They already have everything set up in case she passes away to not have to go through probate. They want to just get her as much money as possible. So I think whatever option we can offer them that will allow them to walk away with that. I don't know problem here. Like I don't think it matters on the market or not. As long as we get the money. Man, this sounds like a perfect JV opportunity where you established, you establish the million dollar basis for the house. You roll it over into a trust or an out on new LLC. You bring a bill, you bring a builder in, raise a structure, put it back as planned plan permitted and either finish it out and then close them, like closing them out on the appraised value. So let's say that, let's say you go to mixed use retail on the ground floor and a duplex up top. And let's say that, that appraises it $2 million. There's a million dollar net gain in there. So you would pay them a ha you would pay them a half, a million dollars. You would pay them a million and a half. At that point, they could do a cash out refi. The family gets a million and a half instead of a million, and they ended up with $500,000 equity in a new development. So that's the kind of the, this is the perfect kind of scenario for one of those deals. And if you can give me the details on it, like whatever you think would be important. I definitely have guys with cash in that market that, that are capable of doing this. Yeah, I figured I'd reach out. Cause I spoke to her a few days ago. And I spoke to her her granddaughter who actually has power of attorney with everything. And she said, look, she just we just want to get her the most amount of money. And we, she just said, we've never done this, so please don't take advantage. I'm like, I'm not here to take advantage of people. I'm here to help people. And you're free to work with whoever you feel comfortable with. I can come over and show you how I can get you the most amount of money. And then if I'm the right person for you, I'd be more than happy to, to lead you through the process. So that's how I went. And she said, look, bring all the paperwork and on Saturday and let's sign. That's awesome. I figured I'd reach out to you first, and and just see if we could get this done another way instead of just going traditional routes. Definitely got some guys. That'll look at it. Cool. Yeah. It's located in Carlsbad. Yeah. I'll send you everything. As soon as I get get back. Cool. Thanks so much fed. And I was just, I just looked over and the comments Tom had mentioned that I think this was probably when we were working on your thing, Mike run probate plus that's something that is probably I think it's certainly worth doing with your list. If you have 500 leads before you pull the trigger on the call campaign and the direct mail for $2 per lead, you can run probate plus and bring back all of the real estate information, including which ones have already sold and then go through and mark, just make your change, your opt-outs and any of the that have showed transfers on the real estate, opt them out of mail and opt them out of phone calls and then do an export of your mailing list and your calling list. You'll probably end up saving. A considerable amount of monitor money probate plus was created for that reason, I was able to cut marketing costs by 45% just by running the probate plus augmentation. So good suggestion, Tom. I wasn't even thinking about that. I would do that before you start Mike. Okay. That sounds good. I've got probate plus in the first several months of them, so perfect. I'll do that. Yeah. Cool. All right guys. As much as I hate to, I'm going to go build a deck in 95 degree heat. Thank you guys for being here and as always for everybody who contributed fed. That sounds like a good deal, man. And you gotta make some YouTube videos while you're there today. Like you're looking the day off. I'm just stuck here thinking about selling this place. It's small, like is there a Lambo have a good day. Thanks so much for being here and being part of our community.