Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast

Probate Mastery Group Training #4 - Certified Probate Expert Q&A

April 28, 2021 Chad Corbett, Katt Wagner, and Special Guests Episode 2
Estate Professionals Mastermind - More Than A Probate Podcast
Probate Mastery Group Training #4 - Certified Probate Expert Q&A
Show Notes Transcript

Full Show Notes:

This might not seem like your typical podcast at first, but it's worth it.  We've taken away the soapbox and brought guests together for a cohort learning experience.  You will find value in these sessions if you're interested in real estate, investing, estate planning, financial independence, and scaling your business in a way that allows you to make an impact on your community at the same time.

Group trainings feature live questions and answers from trainer Chad Corbett, guest coaches, and certified probate experts.

These calls are recorded via zoom and can be viewed in video format in Estate Professionals Mastermind community

Live participation is reserved for graduates of the Probate Mastery (CPE) Certification Course. To learn more, visit

Pre-Roll Information:

Join our Facebook Group: Estate Professionals Mastermind
Check out for the probate certification course and more content.

all right. So welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery coaching call. Just a little bit of housekeeping before we get started. So this is normally we will try to stream these into probate mastery, alumni, or Facebook group. We're having some trouble with this this zoom account. So today we're just recording this. Everyone is muted because some folks come in and have a lot going on in the background. Anyone can unmute themselves. You don't have to ask or raise your hand. If you have something to say, please jump into the conversation because it's hard to manage. When we get a hundred people on here, it's hard to see who all is wanting to talk. So I'll change this over to the gallery and whoever has whatever jump in, how can we help you today? How can we serve you? Hey, don't forget to preface about the podcast episode. Chris Prefontaine Chad, they finally got together, did a podcast episode. I've already linked to it in the chat and I'm going to link to it when we publish this episode. But give us an overview of what you talked about. Yeah. For anyone who's not familiar with Chris's work, he's the gentleman I've recommended for the last couple of years for a creative financing course. Cause I haven't gotten mine built. And I've been told and Steve, thank you for helping us get together. Like several people have tried to connect us and we're just busy and hadn't gotten that done. So we finally got together on a podcast and laid down one recording. I'm pretty sure we're going to be done books and courses and all kinds of stuff together now. But it's Did aired on, I believe on Friday cats dropped the link, but we had just more of a general conversation and, almost these calls are turning out. It's less specific on tactics and strategies and more general on mindset and vision. And I find that, that seems to be 80% plus of the equation anyways. And I guess I'll tell you guys this, my perception, the I've noticed the shift between these calls and the calls that I've hosted for the last seven years with all the leads. Those are very tactical conversations. They're about how do you do this with this letter or this, with this part of the website or this with marketing. And these calls tend to be more. Accountability and mindset. And I think that matters. I think that's a critical difference. Like you guys are at a higher level and I really appreciate that. And that's where the conversation was with Chris and I, we talked more about, the concepts then than the tactics. So anyway, I think it's a fairly good lesson. If you haven't heard my whole story, we talk a little bit more about my background and exactly why I think the way I do. And I insist on serving at the level. I do. I haven't really talked about that a lot publicly, but I think it was a pretty good episode and we've got some other stuff coming up. I may actually be part of his live event that he's, he has coming up too. So check it out. Tell me what you think. Cause I haven't gotten around the building, my creative financing course, but I'm happy to coach that stuff. I just haven't taken the time to actually build it out as a full course. So he's the one that I've always suggested. Cause he's got good content. I need help today. Anybody, any success stories anywhere you're getting stuck. Bill gross. Good to see you here, sir. You're muted, but you can unmute yourself if you'd like. Yeah. Thank you. Chit chat. I just want to jump in and say hi and listen and didn't really have any particular questions or issues, I you've been my coach in probate for two years been life-changing experience and just looking to get some more of that. Yeah. Thanks for being here, man. You're a great contributor, David Pinel, you just showed up to you to Eric Stark. I'm going to call you out, brother. I think I appreciate your candid review after you finished the course. Is there anything that we can help you with? Yeah, I'm glad you called me out. There, there are quite a few things I've been doing probates, definitely not at this level with this level of education that you recently exposed me to. I still find that I struggle years ago we used to send a letter, the inbound call would come in, I'm going in appointment and never considered myself a salesman. I was just going there to solve a problem. And nowadays it has been extremely tough for me to it seems like everybody's waiting or, in the interim when they say, Oh, we're just waiting on this. The next time I follow up. They're like, no we got that property under contract and it's being sold. So I'm trying to find the balance between being a benevolent enough where I can give them their space to operate within their own freedom, but get some more appointments, get some results out of this. So I'm largely coming from the investor side. I am not an agent, but I will be licensed before August 1st, just so I can fulfill that role for these clients. I do have a partnership with a brokerage that can handle the listings and do the referral side of things, but I have still found it very challenging to number one, get a yes for the appointment and then get a yes for an offer. Okay. So let's talk about some of the things that I'm pretty sure. There's a lot in the course. It's a lot of ideas and in short order, but some of the things that I think I'm curious, whether you've tried is like highlighting the possible liabilities and traps and by liabilities, the personal legal liability of being a fiduciary, a lot of. Personal representatives don't understand. They do have a legal responsibility as a fiduciary of the estate. So if a family member were to accuse them in court of, taking too long, having the carrying costs be too high, they could actually be sued. And this happens, it's pretty common in California. But like family members, Sue family members for the way they're handling the estate. So there's some liability there. There's also pointing to the lot. There's also liability from a property ownership standpoint and that falls back to them too. So putting up no trespassing signs, getting vacant insurance policies in place, changing out locks and doing, secure during a property. All and as when you see faces like these and face to face appointments, like we close, if we can get there, we get the deals. And that's the hardest part is sometimes just getting there. So I would, I was like, have you tried those things have you tried to short circuit their pattern and get a reason, any reason to get over there, even if you don't, haven't even talked about the real estate? No, Chad, I will, self-admittedly tell you that I am either too passive or too aggressive. I am a empathetic person that tries to give people their space, but I'm also a cleric personality that when I have the confidence of something I have tendency to kinda just really try to push that on them. So I think at times I, maybe it's the tone of voice that I'm communicating to them. Are you hearing me okay. Yeah, I was, I had an AC kick on, so I was closing the door. Okay. Yeah, I, I think I either find myself on one end of the equation and I do have a caller who's calling the majority of leads and then handing off to me once they've raised their hand, ready to have that conversation just hired Steve to begin taking those over so I can hopefully increase those chances. And it just seems like when they're getting passed over to me everybody's waiting on an attorney. I brought things up like the the insurance exposure, me being able to go over to the property and posts, no trespassing signs. And in my feedback from that so far is they're like, why are you asking if my property is vacant and. I've been listening to the Q and A's trying to come up with some rebuttals to help overcome that. But I really just find myself on one far side of that equation either where I'm either too passive and giving them their space, waiting for them to reach out to me, which they never do. Or, saying, like I have a guy who's literally waiting on an attorney to tell him the amount of the mortgage balance, whether he can accept my offer or not. And I'm like, you're paying somebody $150 an hour to contact your mortgage company, to find out what your balance is. That statements should be sitting around. And I just, I can't figure out the balance in between there. So if you can, so that you can connect the chain of title, like if you get a get a re I have let them know that if we get that offer in escrow, the title company will let us know, with an authorized payoff letter, what that amount is. I just, I really truly feel like I have the education to tell, to walk these people down that pathway. But I just, I just haven't seen the results yet. I'm a hundred percent confident they'll come. I'm just still trying to find my voice after having done this for many years, but taken a backseat. But after awhile, Sure. One thing specifically, a tactically on that is see if you can get them to sign an authorization, to release and get a copy of the the death certificate and the articles, or excuse me the letters, testamentary that will give you the authority to talk to the bank and just say, listen, rather than pay him 150 an hour, let me do it. I'll knock it out this afternoon. And show them how proactive you can be and saving them money at the same time and get what, remove the objection, but an authorization to release. And then connecting the mortgage, the, the borrower's name to the death certificate to the Letters. And then that's the person that signs the authorization to release should be enough and you have to fax it in, which is crazy. But that, that's just been my biggest struggle, Chad. I I've loved the education. I, 100% operate this with a, empathy experience, the track record to do it, but I really have struggled to to find my voice once again, in probate. I've found my I'm putting on the spot. What are what's? We'll make it easy. What's one thing you can do for every single family and probate, whether there's realistic. There's one thing. Maybe I'm thinking too hard on that. No, you're not like I want it to be your idea. I don't want to hand it to you. One thing that I can do for every family, whether there's probate, whether there's real estate or not is, just to have a part of compassion for their situation and be able to a little more specific, like one action item where, I can deliver this to every person who will speak to me. If there's no real estate, I that, that kind of eliminates a lot of the services and the vendors that I have set aside I can refer them over some, some people that are outside, maybe an investment advisor that's going to help with any, the accounts or anything like that. That's where I'm headed. Yeah. Yeah. Just to, to refer some other vendors Chad, it's, this is probably a self limiting belief, but it seems like when I offer those things, I get the impression that They really just think I'm trying to upsell them on some services and I've made it clear. Like I don't, these are, I don't get referral fees for this. This is just a part of the vendor team that we've built to help you guys out. But I largely just get the impression from these people that they're like, we don't need anything you're offering. We truly have it. And again, I, that's probably a self limiting belief, but I've had some people that have really snapped back at me. And, once with all you people contacting me trying to cram your services down our throat and I try to be patient and just try to give them their space at that point. Cause your response to that let's stop your response to that is all you people. And then silence. Okay. And let them burn off that negative energy. Let them tell you their story because that's engagement, even though it feels like you're getting your ass reign, like it's engagement. And if we can burn, if we can burn off that negative emotion, then we might have something else to talk about. So raise your, raise the pitch of your voice, raise your inflection and repeat what they said, mirror that behavior and be like all you people. At what point do I let them vent? And if they come back, it seems like it feels like it, it sure. That's it seems like someone else's pissed you off, there's certainly nothing I've said that could have made you this emotional. If, and you label and mirror their behavior until you burn off that, that negative energy. And you're having a real human conversation and that's persistence. I'm I don't I'm you said this in the beginning. You're not a salesperson. You've never viewed yourself. I haven't either. I view myself as a leader and a consultant. I've never thought, I'm going to sell this guy. And, but I've used that quite a bit to actually burn through then because we can't hold that level of. Intensity for very long, if you've ever seen a bar fight, they're usually over in seven or eight seconds. Like we just can't be that mad for that long. And so you can break those break, those patterns. A lot of this stuff I just saw from John Fraker. Drop the link in the chat. A lot of that stuff, I became much better at teaching. Once I read the book, he suggested, never split the difference. Chris Voss it'll teach tactical empathy, mirroring and labeling lots of things that I've been using for years waiting tables. And he does such a beautiful job of presenting that in an easy to understand in the right order too. So if you haven't read that book, try that, but when those people are talking, that's a good thing, regardless of the words that are coming out of their mouth, because if you can just keep them there long enough, you can usually uncover a problem. And that's the second thing before I interjected I want you to think about all the problems I might have, but more importantly, I want you to think about all the problems they might have that they're not aware of yet, because how many times in your life have you needed something and you just didn't know it yet. Every day. Exactly. So start to think about what those statements are. Oh, you know what? Listen, I, and have you heard me talk about, feel, felt found? Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good place to use that tactic is, listen, Mr. Smith, I understand exactly how you feel actually felt same way when X happened. And what I found as I was neck deep into this before I actually re reached out to the person I should have reached out to in the beginning. Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. And if this is the first time being an executor, it is your first time. And I want the positive answer. I want that affirmation. There's a, there's about a 90% chance. It's the first time they've done this. Then I'm going to follow up and bring a little bit of fear to the surface. What we find is usually months into the process. People find out they're illegal fiduciary and they have real liability. And we just want to make sure that each of our, each family that we can reach has an opportunity to have access to our team. It took me years to build this team, to vet these people and to make sure that I could trust each and every one of them as if they were serving my family before I was willing to reach out to your family. So you may or may not know this yet. You're going to have to build a team or you're going to need a team so you can build one or you can borrow one, which do you think serves you best? And I love how fluent you are in that. Eric, what market are you in? Michigan, just North of Detroit. Where, what'd you say white collar blue collar. What's your medium price point? Our average price points are right around two 25. Okay. So I'm getting the impression here that, a lot of the people you're speaking with, their families, aren't familiar with financial planning. They might see it as like a bourgeois. Type of thing. And in that case, I feel like changing your approach and speaking more down to earth the jargon, the language. I can easily see that overwhelming people, they feel like they're being sold. They feel like you're giving them the never ending scroll of things that they're tuning out before they really even listen to what you have to offer. The average person he speaks to. Might not understand the impact of generational wealth and what that one inherited property could mean for their family. If they handle it the right way, not so much. I don't think these people would be ready to think about avoiding probate in the future, as much as dealing with the sentimental belongings that are right here. And right now, if someone's house is worth 220,000 or less, that person's much more likely to, be focused on the sentimental value, the probate, quicksand, the emotions. And I think jumping into a state planning, vacant property, all of that could just completely overwhelm someone on a first contact. Yeah, good point. Where I was headed was to pick the least threatening member of your team that can help any and every family. So a CPA is a good example of that. So they probably have questions about the final tax return. And the attorney is probably going to refer them to Juan if he hasn't and John Fraker jump in here anytime, but that they're not expecting to be sold anything by a CPA. They're going to see that person as a public consultant. So it's a safe, it's a safe test, to just see if you can say, Oh, so are you guys aware of all the requirements for the final tax return filing? Or would you like a free sit down with our CPA? It's, we try to make sure every family has an opportunity. And ask the tax questions. Tax code is immensely complicated. It's not that it's not that complex, but you bring that concern to the top and then hand them the solution. And all of a sudden they're like, Oh my God, this guy's not trying to pressure me in anything. He's actually trying to give me a free consultation with a CPA. It's just one example. You can, vacant insurances that requires a little bit of money. Like they have to commit to a policy, right? The CPA is if you can, if you have a good relationship with a CPA, and this is where those, the vendor relationship network giving that CPA that are non probate referrals, just people, small business owners who are struggling, finding. Every opportunity you can to put somebody through that person's door. So they'll be willing to work for free because they know you've got their back. You send them referrals, they live and die by those. And they will sit and talk to 10 families a week on the phone if they have to. So that's where I was headed with it is I want you to come up with your answer, but what is one thing you can give to any family and a consultation with an estate planning attorney? A consultation with the CPA, an opportunity to speak to it just there's when we go through that team and think what can all of these people do and what, which of these does everybody need, whether they know it now or not. And then you can probably use that. Feel felt found to stop them, slow them down, bring a little bit of pain to the surface, make them think, Oh crap. Maybe I don't have this all figured out and then offer the solution. And it may not convert on this particular phone call. And David Pinel was one of the best on here at this. He'll find any way to serve them in a little way as possible. Just get a reason to call back and get your name in front of them somehow. And bring in your vendor partners into it gives you more control because then you have a reason you can follow up with the CPA and be like, Hey man, I sent Jane Smith over to you last week. Have you guys talked? And whether the answer is yes or no, you've got a clear reason to follow up. So it's no longer a cold call. Hey Jane, this is Eric. We talked last week and I bumped into Tim today at the supermarket. And he said he hadn't heard from me. I just wanted to make sure that I got the information, when I sent you his phone number and an email, did you get that? And then expect the excuses and what your, and this is the point where leadership comes in. She's going to start to tell you all the reasons she didn't do it. And it's all a bunch of bullshit. She's afraid she's an uncharted territory and she's looking for leadership, and this is your opportunity to step up and serve her as a leader. Be like, listen, I understand this is intimidating. It's easy to procrastinate. It's hard to go into this uncertain territory, but that's what I'm offering you. That's why we reached out to your family to begin with. And then she'll start to fit. That's a much different conversation than she's having with anyone else. And so that's the kind of things like just little subtle things that. If you can get any entry, any way to help them, you can scale that up over a conversation or two or three into an impressive service. And you'll be the only one they talk to from that all. No, Chad, you said something last week and it really, it struck a chord with me immediately. And is it, my is my fear of serving anyone and you led that into, am I processing the feelings about that or am I repressing them? I've really just went through several conversations that I've had. There were three people that I was able to connect with that I was not able to help them sell their property. But I did direct them to some investment the investment advisors and then one for insurance for their Northern Michigan property. And that truly was the greatest payday, having those people come back to me, even after I couldn't get what I wanted out of that, which was, to be able to buy the real estate. I've really just been, trying to take the knowledge that I have and I feel confident in, we are really leading people down the path to fruition to help them unlike anybody else in this market really is, but there's. I still feel like there's some kind of black where again, I don't know, I'm trying to find that level of benevolence within myself to, to really just like you said, let them vent. If they're going to throw something wild and audacious out there don't take it so personal. Like I heard you say multiple times, don't take these things personal, give these people the room to vent. If they're classifying you in a bunch with other people, call that out and let them expose that a little bit. So you can have the opportunity to separate yourself from that herd. So maybe I just, maybe I can do some one-on-one time with you or that just really seemed like something that I could boil everything down to and say, I believe in what I'm doing. I have a heart of empathy. I'm educated, right up there with if not better than most people in my market, but there's still something that is preventing me from gently pushing them to the next phase of. Their question, their reluctance, whatever, whatever it is that they come up with. There's a million reasons why people are, are deflecting everything that I'm saying. And I just need to have more of a benevolent confidence to push past that. Yeah, man. You're you got it. You got it. So the one thing you're missing is all the stories that go behind this that can fuel that energy, that it takes you to push through and lead. And there's only one way to get those. I didn't have them when I started, I didn't have a mentor in this. So like you've got us. That's what this community is about. So get to know the people whose faces are on the screen right now. If you don't have your own stories, share theirs. Learn about other people's deals, how it came together, how long it took them to get that person on the phone, all the mistakes that were made. And you can start to pull from those stories and network. We've got communities, our Facebook group, and talk to people and be like, Hey, who can help me with a story about how you know, and John Fraker is on this call. He's a huge contributor. And he's watched families make these mistakes for 20 years as an attorney. And for several as an in the brokerage world, he has amazing stories that will stop people on their tracks, like shit you wouldn't believe. And so network, and really if you don't have your own stories and your own examples to pull from, you've got us. That's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. The thing I see that might be able to help you start to learn what, what has worked and didn't work for other people and how they cleaned up messes and things like that. But over time, you'll start to connect faces to stories, and those stories will turn into story selling, right? You'll say, you know what you remind me of Sarah McLaughlin. That's not a very good name. Music star, Sarah Smith. And let me tell you about, have you got five that it's for a story because I think Sarah would want me to tell you this story. No, this is a very human conversation, right? We're not trying to push real estate sales on them. We're talking to them, we're telling them a story. And that's what I've found to be the most powerful is when I could connect names and like stories to the behavior they were having, then I could break that behavioral block. And you guys have probably all heard me talk about this. It's I don't view every objection as like a behavioral block, but when I see somebody standing in their own damn way, I'm going to say something right. I'm going to push on them. And sometimes I just don't. But most of the time I do, because I see that they're actually not, their behavior is not serving them. And certainly not me cause I'm out in the business. Yeah, absolutely. Eric, thanks for stepping up brother. And I think my best advice to you is as really network and get the most out of this community takes courage to stand up and say, I think I'm doing this wrong, or this is where I'm feeling weak. So let these people help you. And if anybody else has any advice, please step up and give Eric your opinion. No mom gladly. All right. We got wan fed and Lanette with their hands up. I swear. I thought I saw, Oh, she disappeared. All right. One silver me can hear you loud and clear. How can we help you today? Got a couple of things. I guess I'll start off one thing that I've to share with other people and prospecting for States. So like for probates. What I do is I go through Facebook marketplace and I just look at for estate sales. Cause I like being a little bit more one-on-one and gives more of a natural field, gets you like FaceTime with the people. So I actually found one right down the road and it's a surviving spouse and I guess one part is I'll try to find out if she's technically out of file probate that's I guess one of my first questions because her husband passed away in December and she's she has no idea like on what to do. And luckily with the probate class I did with the AZA learning quite a bit. So I was able to, use a, that vendor map that you gave us and go through it, like on Milan, just Hey we got a couple different options for you, we can either, fix it up, get full market value for it. We can, wholesale it out if you need, just provide different things for, give her a realtor, whatever she needs. So it's a. Three bedroom, two bath house about 2000 square feet, but it sorry, I'm a little nervous it's sold in. It's she bought it in 2018 brand new, so it doesn't need much fix, fixing up. So probably just like unfair. It's got about 370,000 left on the loan. So there's about a 60 to 70,000 margin cause it sells about four 30 full market value. So I was trying to find out some options to be able to help her out. Ultimately I got a state sale guy, like you had on the bender map. He's going to help her, sell whatever she needs and stuff like that to, be able to get stuff back in her pocket. She doesn't really have much motivation or she has motivation. She wants to be done, but she doesn't have a medical bills and stuff that she has to worry about. She even said, she's I'd be happy to walk away with 10 grand and stuff. I'm just trying to find a way to make ends meet for, and then, get her on her way and admins fall in my lap for it. That I'll be happy, but like you were saying just. Being able to get stuff through the door. And actually this is what I'm trying to do is to get more FaceTime with a lot of vendors and stuff and kind of start building my toolkit and stuff. I want to start back at the beginning and commend you for thinking outside of the box. We talked last week about having your own estate sale group and that's something you should probably get in place. But what you've done is you've gone out and found people who are. About to make a mistake and try to manage and run their own estate sale. And you just saved them from a huge pain in the ass. So good on you. Good on you for that. And it also started the conversation. So you found whatever value you could, right? Like personal property. This position is a huge, how many people hear it? Raise the hand, how many people ever made the stupid ass mistake of having a yard sale? People show up at five 30 in the morning, they block your driveway. It's the craziest thing ever. And you're going to make $22 for 14 hours of work. And I'm like, take it to Goodwill. But that's like controlling the point of sale to keeping people from stealing things, knowing what things are worth showing up there 94 times, it's not anything I would ever suggest any person would do. So you, you did a service there, no matter how small that might seem like you might've been selfishly trying to start a conversation, but it was with value. So good on you for that man. And as far as the house I, my biggest questions are you capitalize? What is your, what kind of man are you trying to be? You want to be a long-term buy and hold investor. You want to flip and get eaten up in income taxes. What's your strategy. Gotcha. Currently I'd like to just more on the wholesaling side, so I haven't actually, I'm not actually a realtor, so I do investing, trying to wholesale, but why was why am I not a realtor? Or why am I just trying to find, so why are you nervously saying just a wholesaler? Oh yeah, I guess I gotta own it. But no, just more so in the sense of just what the market I was trying to actually just get in and get out and just be able to make things move. Okay. And say, I want cash fast and now that's okay. Yeah. That's pretty much it. Yeah. Have you ever heard of the marshmallow test? So it's a psycho psychological test. You give a young child, one marshmallow now, or two and two hours. And the kids who take two marshmallows tend to be in the top 1% of our nurse. And this has been going on for almost a half a century. And so I want you to think about that because I got into with the same low risk, high reward mindset, and wholesaling's a super competitive space. That's why I'm pushing on you a little bit here. You've got one fricking thing that you can do, right? You can offer a low offer and you have to compete that the only thing you have to differentiate yourself. There's a couple of things like the level of service you provide and how you make them feel, but otherwise the quickest way to kill any negotiation is the hang up on price. It's dead. If you don't have other gambits on the table. So like when you look at the reason I'm unpacking all this is a great opportunity to own or finance a house. So you have a surviving spouse. If you understand the chain of title, if she held the, if she held the house with the right title, then it is very possibly going to transfer to her outside of probate. Tomorrow you could initiate that process. Get her. What if this lady, what owner finance this house to you with zero money down, buy full price offer on a 30 year amortization with a five-year balloon. Would you take the deal? Not too familiar with the five-year balloon. It definitely five years to get your finances in order. So you can refinance that house and it puts some teeth in the deal for you because I have to have a stable income and be able to refinance this house. Here's the reality. You can do the refi through a community bank with an asset-based loan, not a personal credit based loan. So I'm not telling you to take unreasonable risk. Most people don't believe you can just walk into a community bank and get a loan, but you can. It's called the commercial department. You throw 20 grand on a deposit account and say, I need to speak to the president of commercial lending and they will write you a home on because that house is going to have a debt coverage ratio of probably one and a half to two and a half, because you've amortized it over 30 years. So your cashflow is going to be instant and it's going to be good. So I'll ask again, would you rather make a quick profit or would you rather minimize taxation maximize your net operating income and build real wealth over time and compete far less than you are wholesaler? That's definitely like the option. I'd definitely like to look at the S and M that's $10,000. Yes. Give her $10,000 cash as a down payment, amortize, it make her an offer. Like you said all I want is 10,000 bucks. Make that as painless as possible and be like, absolutely, I'm going to put that down as the earnest money deposit and we can close next week. But because I'm giving you full price and I'm giving you the cash. I need to make the terms work for me as you understand that, right? Yeah. Okay. So what those terms are is I'm going to a regular mortgage. We're going to amortize this over 30 years, but because I'm not want to drag this out for 30 years. I will refinance probably in the next year or so, as soon as I can get a year's worth of books on the property, then a community bank will is how I refinance my properties and we'll put a long-term loan in place and you'll get the, you'll be paid at, paid off in full. Let me just take a few minutes and I'll write this up and I'll be right back, go to your truck. Could get out of contract, write the damn thing, walk it back in there and say, okay, look at my blue pen. So I think that's your play man. And I know that probably wasn't the answer you expected, but you're like wholesaling is an incredibly competitive game and this woman has a home in good condition and all she wants is 10 grand. So my mind goes to a one strategy. I'm like, that's what you call a free house. So that would be, I would try to do it if and you said there's a note on it, so you're going to have to do it as a rap. I said, owner financing. There is a note, right? Yeah. So you can buy subject to if you have to get, if you have to get out, you get out through a refinance, but so get an authorization to release. Call the bank, set up autodraft payments are actually set up a third party, servicer loan servicer, and connect your bank account to the servicer to the lender. And both of you, both you and her get an email receipt and a paper copy of each month's payments and then go rent that thing out. Like you'll rent it and the day. But that's what I would suggest you do with that one. That way. You're not competing with all the other guys that are going to hit her way lower than that. If you can give her, you can give her what she wants, 10 grand on a solid offer, and you can get a free house. And you're not going to get blessed or an income tax like you would with a wholesale fee. Gotcha. That's true. I appreciate it. Yeah. That's mainly what I was trying to look at it like just different options, just to be able to, like you're saying, come to the table done, you've got the wholesale side and then obviously bring value added. But ultimately like the other option that I wanted to highlight that one, because I felt like it was being overlooked. Your options are obviously conventional sale. You've got enough equity. You can refer her to a realtor if none of these other things work out. So you can do a conventional sale, you could do a lease with option to purchase where you don't have to take any personal risk. You can do an app, as is, whereas probably doesn't even make sense on it because it's in such good shape. You can obviously do a wholesale. So there's a lot of strategies you can use. I think the one that meets her needs and serves you at the highest level long term is the one I suggested. But if you're not comfortable with it or you don't understand it, don't go do that. Like you've got to agree. Okay. But I think that like a sub two or wrap if necessary, you probably don't even need the rap. You can just do 10,000 and the sub two. And then you got yourself a big four bedroom rental originated, when the note was originated was I should have it. I got it up on prop stream. Oh, you got prop stream. So just what's your estimated rent and what's the estimated payment. That's the loan payments 17 and then loan originated November, 2019. Oh. So she's got a super low rate. You want that loan forever? Like you're not going to refinance that one. If she doesn't care. If you take it sub to she doesn't care, she got her 10 grand. That's all she wanted out of it. I'd ride that one for a ride. That one for the next 27 years, like I said, and if you don't have this already, you should go open an account on a community bank, build a relationship with the commercial loan officer and be ready for asset based lending. Because if you're in one of these deals and they call the note, you have plenty of time. But if you already have that relationship, you're going to be like, yeah. Okay, whatever. And then just go to the bank, say, Hey, I got this house, they're going to give you up to an 85 LTV. You've already got the equity. That's why I'm suggesting that as a safe strategy. And you can refi, you could refile that in 30 days before they could ever go through the foreclosure process. Gotcha. So my man, how are you? Hello? Hello? How are you? Good. How are you, man? Great. So thanks. Thanks for taking my my question. So a little announcement. I do have a referral for Mr. Pinell. So if you can call me after this call or whenever you have it, Mr. Now I got pushed below the fold. You still here? Oh, there you are. Nice right there. Secondly, I have a question about an appointment and a question that may be John Fraker could also jump in on. So the question is about PRS who have an attorney, right? So I had a lead that I started going after a few months ago. She's she was out of state in Florida, stayed in touch with her, the properties in California. Stayed in touch. She said, look, I'm definitely gonna need your help. So I made sure throughout the holidays and for whatever reason, just to either send a holiday card or just, is there a vacant home insurance policy on the property, all that stuff just to stay in front of her. She ends up, she tells me she's supposed to come to California, to me, with the attorney to get a better understanding all that stuff. And finally, after about four months of follow-up, I guess the second she met with the attorney gave her a realtor to work with. So she went from super-friendly to, I have a realtor don't call me all right. It is what it is. So the question is for PRS that have attorneys, is it, do you suggest that perhaps if they don't show resistance, AK, if they're open to. Your help in whichever way it is. And you notice that they do have an attorney already. Would it be a good idea to also if they don't show resistance, contact the attorney and try to establish a rapport and if so, what would be the best way to go about doing so, so that you're not just hi, Mr. For example, hi John. I know you're working with Chad and I'm a realtor and blah, blah, blah. So it's not give me, it's almost, would you maybe take the approach with John of saying, Hey I'm putting together for example, a checklist and I'd like to include you, I'd like to get your input, blah, blah, blah. But I also don't want to beat around the Bush, if that's even an approach that you would take, that's that question? I don't know if you want me to go to the next question is stop there. I'm going to let John take this one as long as you want to. Yeah, I know. I know what I would say, but I want to hear what he has to say. Okay. Yeah. It's, when you describe something like that's fairly rare that an attorney on the first call would have a realtor locked and loaded unless they have some kind of maybe off the books, partnership with that realtor, to be honest with you. Okay. Yeah, my business partner, Leon and I talk about this all the time. He's we've had, I had a court case where we went, it was a partition sale. So it was your typical non-functional family. And the parents had one house. They had five kids and they did a what's it, the the deed and replacement of probate. So they just said, when we die, the survivorship deed, it goes to the five kids. So for the five kids live near the property, one of them, my client lives up here in the Bay area. And was like, Hey, you guys are going to sell this or can I get some information on it? No, no sent letters to his own siblings over two years. And they kept dropping in the shredder. So we actually wound up going to court. And the funny thing was, we litigated it. Obviously they can't stop a partition action in California. So we were going to get exactly what we needed after we made the other attorney look really bad. But then he was like, it was part of the settlement. I got my guy over here, the realtor, and I was like, interesting. So I'm not going to fight the guy over that, even though, I had already made them look bad. I was trying to let him escape with some of his dignity intact. And it was just weird to me. And I talked to Leon, my business partner, and he's dude, there, they have a pay deal on the side. You're not going to talk about it. That's unethical state bar wouldn't allow that. I guarantee it's happening. In some cases you're going to run into something like that. There's no point in trying to fight that one, in general, building relationships with attorneys is, it's proactive. It's getting to them before you have that kind of discussion with them. I've talked about that in the video. I shot with Chad a while back and I, when people call me up for advice on various situations, I say the same thing. It's the same thing as all of, what we're learning and mastery start from a place of contribution. What can you do to help that business person who happens to be an attorney? How can you help them grow a lot of stuff you can do for free, bill gross, does his weekly videos, invite them on, your social media promote them to your client base, your friends, family, whatever. I've talked about this a lot with Chad. I work in Silicon Valley. We have a lot of high net worth people here. Obviously when I get a referral from like the high net worth money managers, financial planners, CPAs, like the top shelf people, they always lead the relationship to me and they stay involved throughout. So it's never like I refer to you and they wouldn't put it this way. They would never trust their client to find their way to my office. They're going to walk them in and they're going to sit down and, attorney client privilege, they're not going to sit through the whole meeting to talk about the family's needs, but that whole up to that point where you get confidential, there's no reason they can't that they can't be there. And I'll tell you, in 20 years of doing this, a realtor has never once done that to us. And I don't know any attorneys that said that it happens all the time with CPAs financial planners. So where where you view yourself in relationship to the client, the value you're bringing, that's the sort of thing where you can bring tremendous value. It costs you nothing. It takes a half hour out of your day, or maybe a little bit more to drive with them to the attorney's office, hold the hand, help them not be as uncomfortable and talking about probate or living trust or whatever. And that's something that the attorney is going to remember. I can't in that situation that you described, I don't think there's any way around that because it sounds like he's probably getting paid off the books or something. I don't know. Yeah no. That makes sense. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. Sorry. My advice is, and I really wanted to hear John's part of that. My advice is every time you speak to a personal representative, that goes well, call their attorney immediately following. And say, listen, you're a small business owner, I'm a small business owner. I feel like I owe you, knowing that I have spoken with your client, here's why here's who I am and what I'm offering them. And here's what I can offer you. So remember, it's a B2B relationship. You're not trying to sell him anything. It's how can my small business support your small business and find a way to bring value to that firm and to that case. And, but I would suggest that you do that on every good conversation should be followed by a good attorney comment, just even if you get shot down and it's just an introduction, they're not all going to result in Oh my God, you're the best guy ever fed, but some of them will. You'll find that you'll find the John Fraker of Southern California. And like over time, you're going to know all the good attorneys. This is, they'll grow. So guy, he's got a cool trick too. He goes to court. He follows him to fucking work. You can't get away from him. He's you can find me there. Bill. Bill will never run into me there. I try to go as little as humanly possible. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are still a hundred percent virtual, aren't you? Yeah. They're really starting to open things up. It was an absolute train wreck. We had a conservatorship close out on. My hearing was March 16th and that's the, like over the weekend is one of the orders came down and shutting everything down. And I was like a conservatorship is one of those cases. Like the final hearing, you have to bring the person, the conservator in person to square up to the judge. You never didn't even cross my brain to do that. Virtually. I had to scramble to get like what do you call it? The phone conferencing set up for that, because there's no way you would do that. Like with integrity, you can't, the judge wants to look them in the face. That's not something you would ever handle virtually a call or whatever. But that weekend, there was like stuff on Twitter, like superior court judge in charge of the whole is we're not, I was like emailing judges on their like personal email on weekends. Be like, I have a hearing what's happening. And like we got in and out under the wire, it took me two and a half months to get my order signed. Cause it was that bad. And they like, the judge opened that morning session with today's the last day of regular business. If you don't have something that's life threatening, don't come back. Hopefully that's turning around. Yeah, there's still courts opening records rooms that haven't even had that open. All right, guys, we've got seven minutes. We're going to go a little bit over fed. You had a follow-up yeah, just a super quick up. This is regarding an appointment. I set for this this weekend. So when I was when I was going over, what, the main challenges they were having with the probate process the PR actually communicated that the biggest challenge overall was just getting the house into a living trust. Cause I guess the deceased, the mother just had forgotten to place the house into the trust. And she said that now that's taken care of, pardon? If it's an ignorant question, I'll ask it anyways. In that case now that the house is in the living trust. Does she does the PR need letters of testamentary? Do I need to ask that? You're saying, so you had a surviving spouse, husband passed away trust sorry. Daughter's PR mother passed away. You're like, even if they did put it in the trust, it wasn't in the trust one. It, when she passed away, so it has to be probated, right? What state California now, California, as long as it appears on the California is like the only state you can pull this. I've done this forever. We have a, it's a California Supreme court case. It's called the doctrine or heck stair case. Every probate attorney knows this. If you have a living trust and it appears on the schedule of assets, the assets, the real estate does, you can have a modified hearing. It's called a Heggstad petition and a hearing. It's not a full probate. There's no letters issued that. Confirm it as an asset of the trust after you go through the process. So I had a client who is way back in 2000 and 2005, 2006 timeframe. His brother called me, he's my brother just got out of the hospital. He had a stroke and you go up there and do a trust. Like I, it was an hour and a half from my house. I literally packed a laptop and a printer. And I went to this guy's house and I was there like for dinner, like for him breakfast and dinner, I was there all day getting arms around this guy's stuff. And he had five, he had a series of five strokes over a couple of years, he was going downhill. And I was like, I may not have a lot of time to do stuff. And so he left with a trust on signed, notarized, everything. The only thing we didn't have is the deeds. Cause he, his stuff was a mess. That's why I was there that long. This stuff is all over the map. So we got the legal descriptions from a title company. We confirm that with the court and it didn't go to probate. So that's something that, again, I only teach, I, I'm only aware that California does that. Other States may have that, but you don't have to take that as to the probate, if it appears on the schedule of assets, if it doesn't, and it's just something completely forgotten about, then you do have to go to probate. We do. In those cases, it's usually some kind of a pour over will situation where you pour it over to the trust via probate. The HEG stat is really what they're trying to do is figure out what the settler, the person's intention is. If their intention was to include that as part of that house, as part of their living trust, the court will confirm that it's not a full probate. It's a hearing that can be done in many cases. X-bar day in Santa Clara County. We do them ex party, which means no hearing nothing. I signed the paperwork to the judge, nobody objects to it. It's done. It never sees a courtroom. Again, that's a California only thing, as far as I'm aware, I'm not aware of other States, but again, I'm only licensed here. So I only have to know our rules, but California, since my entire career we've done that successfully. The guy that I was describing had six properties on a schedule, a and none of them were deeded to the trust before he died. And we went to court. I was way up in Contra Costa Martinez, I think was the court anyhow. Never stopped learning in this niche. That's awesome, John, thank you for that. I have a up, so I just want to make sure this is a teachable moment for me. If the family had already petitioned the court for pro bait, does Heggstad still apply after the fact after they've been after that hearing. So if they didn't understand the law, they went and filed probate and then. Good after that case is opened, does it still apply? Yeah, yeah. I In that case, would you be doing, and this is where you need an attorney who knows the court and the staff of the court, as well as the judge to explain the situation. That's a very similar fact pattern to an after discovered will, right? So I got, I have a case right now, a probate, a lady died and nobody can find any documents. So we're filing it in test date. No we'll know anything, there, she has been talking about what she wants to happen to her stuff to family for a long time. So the assumption is we may uncover a will. In that case, you open as intestate, you find the will. Once you get the letters of authority to go to the banks and search the deposit boxes and the safe and all that stuff, once you do that, then you just go back to the court said, Hey, we found a will. It's no longer intestate. It's this you file limited paperwork. For a step thing, if there was a trust and it was on the schedule of assets, I would basically use modifying your advising to the chord. This asset isn't subject to probate. If that's the only thing you were probating, you may not need the probate. The court would be happy to get your case off their calendar. Very happy. So you can say, look, it turns out we had to trust turns out it was on the schedule of assets. Family didn't know the rule. So we'd like to switch this to a Hickstead proceeding, not switch this initiate a headset proceeding, get that thing confirmed. And then, so usually what the court would do is they'd leave the probate open until the other issue resolve itself. And then the question is there anything left to probate? If the answer is no, they shut it down. If there are other assets, then the probate continues without the real estate. And that's awesome. Thanks for that lesson. Now fed back to your question. Yes. I know that was literally just the questions in some meeting a meeting the PR on us on a Saturday. So I just wanted to make sure. Do I need to ask about do they have the letters of testamentary yet or any of that, but it sounds like they may not need to because the house was officially placed into the trust into the living trust. Yeah. If a title is transferred, it may be in process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the, yeah, let's see how this goes. Let's see. That's awesome. Great question. Golden nugget out of Fraker. Thanks for that, John. That's awesome. I'm kidding. Somebody attacked. Somebody was talking about, somebody was talking about 150 bucks an hour at Magnum Opus. All right, Lynette. You're up next so you can unmute yourself whenever you're ready. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Okay. I have a quick follow-up from last week, I have a football coach, friends that passed and nobody was really talking about how and why. And I went, I ended up going to services and I wasn't sure how to approach since it was so close. And frankly first of all, I'm glad I mentioned it. So just to get the wiggles out of the way, and then when I got there, it was just really natural, when you're amongst your tribe and your people. And and there's an obvious commitment to, like I said, after my rent last week, you earned that deal years ago. Yeah. Yeah. So they're they're in a situation where we're just doing it step by step. And I'm just funneling resources as appropriate and giving hugs and taking calls and all those things. So I, I'm honored to have been there, thank you for sharing that. I'm glad it went the way I thought it would. It did. You can tell a lot about a person by the way that even if it is a camera, the way they look and your body language, like it's pretty obvious, you're a compassionate person and you've carried that through your relationships. So I didn't think you were taking any risks there. So I appreciate that. And then I guess the lesson there is everything that's swirling around in your head is just really pretty much irrelevant until it's relevant, like it does, it's just all made up. So thank you. It afforded me space for coming back and sharing. I do have a kindergarten question and I, I can postpone this one conversation that happened. I'm looking at it's really interesting. Like it's kinda raining. Senior probate. EV everything that we bring to the table for a probate deal is oftentimes pertinent for a non probate deal. You can afford extra resources. Yeah. I feel like I'm going to a client and a traditional rowboat with one, or because I don't have it all cinched up in a bow. In a pretty package with my collateral and branding and the shiny folder. And I'm not saying I have to have it that way, but I'm going down, down the river, like heat Turkey during I'm moving. But it is this something that just comes like every time I talked to somebody, they need another resource. It's like the basic ones are like, you need clean-out, you need the attorneys, you need the CPAs, you need the, the list of predictables. But sometimes, like you said, if you have like antique cars in this case, it's Western native doll collection. And I looked at him and I know that I don't know how much that's worth, and I know it's worth something, cause you can tell. So I, that's not going to be on my list of, does live, Sotheby's have this, come on in somebody else. But yeah, I guess the bigger question is like, where do you start with this stuff? You're never going to have a complete team, except that I think you probably heard me tell the story about Jim, my partner, Jim, he, he had to find a guy that makes cash offers online. I'll train collections, and he sold the train set for 43 grand and bought the house for 38. I don't remember the specific numbers, but the trains are worth more in the house and who thought they ever needed an antique train guy? So you'll never get done with that. I want to touch on the collateral stuff. And this is where I think we're probably all gonna have differing opinions. David Pinel has a great piece that he had developed that has served him really well. It's a multi page fly flyer that has his personal testimonials and his vision, and like a lot of information about his service. For me, that's something that I tried early on. I tried the iPad presentations. I tried brochures for me. What works best is you're going to look me in the eye if you want collateral. Give me a reason to show up and I'm going to withhold, I'm purposely withholding that information till I get can get to the house, but I have to find some, excuse, some reason, some service that will get me to the property. So I would don't feel, I guess my point is it's not absolutely necessary to have beautiful marketing collateral. If it gives you a different level of confidence or your market actually does, it's because of the overall climate that you're in, if that's necessary, then I absolutely support it. And David has been really generous and helping everybody, and sharing what he has. You might want to take a look at the brochure that, that he had designed. And you take some inspiration for that, but do not feel like you need that in order to provide the service or get through to people because that will create a block like you don't need it to get through. Communication will get you through quicker than marketing collateral. If someone, if you have a handout and they're like can you just send me something? Can you have something with a little more detail then what? Then you've got an excuse for them to get away from you. But anyway, that's my take on it. I just don't want you to feel like you have to have it. But there are some folks here that I know don't fully agree with me, Rosie hair. As I see her, she popped into the middle. There. She's an amazing brand. Like she's done such a good job, branding herself and creating collateral over the last year. David Pinel is awesome at it. Like a lot of folks on here take a different approach than I do. And that's, what's so cool about this community. Not everybody has to agree with me, but for me, it's odd to have face to face. If you want to know who my team is, look me in the eye and ask, and that gets me to the house. The other thing that's occurred to me is real estate is how I'm paid. I'd like to be able to get, get paid on providing some financing as well. And that's another conversation that it just to believe that wearing a hat like that you're not selling cannabis or something in Denver. You just never know you need to eye for that right. Options, like coat crazy out here. But it, it personally, like I'm not actually in the real estate business, I'm in the, like the umbrella of I'm just going to speak freely, fixed a shit business, and I need to own the clean-out. I need to own the elder care. I need to own the place for mom and, I'm I'm a human being and I can only do so much at first. Until I gathered those leverage resources. So I'm wondering, does anybody start from okay, so our infamous and famous attorney in California, he's an attorney, so he has that umbrella, famous, very things. And, but there, there's obviously a leveraged resource there. So has anybody else started from a different cut or just brought it all in or is this just nonsense and just go sell your real estate and shut up? I missed the point of your question. That's the other thing I see a lot of people struggle with that. They think they've got to build the dream team before they show up. And that's absolutely not true. Where I started. With Chad, I didn't even know that I was going to build a team, but it became apparent really quickly. That first deal that you heard me open the class with, I tell the story of Pam FOS. And I didn't know who I was going to pull in on that deal until that moment. And I'm like, Oh hell, I see three people that I can make do all this work. I didn't do anything on that deal. I literally did the transaction engineering right there in the living room. And I didn't touch a damn thing. I've never been back. went back to that house for the VA inspection and I stopped by every once in a while, like after the fact. And I still talk to those, the folks that bought it. But don't do not feel like, if you believe, if this is what always challenged everybody, if you had a $50,000, cashier's check on your desk on your broker's desk. And in order to deposit that to be paid, you had to have, Five or six of those team members that you don't have. How long would it take you to build those? To vet people and find six that you would be okay introducing to your clients? The damn son wasn't set in Denver before it was done, it would literally be an inside. The reason I use that, like move forward with confidence. You're not bullshitting anybody. And I don't really like the fake it till you make it saying, because you're not faking it. You just, you have a strategy that you haven't fully executed. There's nothing fake about it. You can say we provide the service and we as a collective term of the people on your team, so don't feel like you're faking anything or deceiving anybody and don't go unnecessarily connect with a social worker. Wait until you need one, but just have faith that you can do that. And in a timely fashion. Now, if you have spare time, rather than screwing around on Facebook, I would suggest that you put yourselves out there and use that time wisely and connect with a social worker, go visit a nursing home, put yourself in the path of these people and with the sole intent of finding out, how can I help this person? And once I've impressed them, they want to be part of my team. That's the natural, organic way to find, to build like the dream team, the people that have a lot of allegiance to you. Forcing yourself. Like I have a list of 10 CPAs and I won't stop until one of them is mine. Like it's not going to be as natural conversation. That's really great. So what you basically outlined the process, so to take the leads in front of me and build the team as it goes and understand that I will have the resources necessary and be done. Exactly. It's just that's that helps me deal. Then you have a reason to have it, The cart and the horse, there's a lot of chat going on. I hope cat's watching this. Someone had a question about what in the world is a community bank way up there. Anton. So to me, community bank is a small at the city level sometimes or regional level. I had to find this account of my own personal. What I look for in a community bank is between one and $3 billion in assets with less, certainly less than 10% of REO on the books. And then if you look at their Texas score and I will have to drop a link later to a resource that I use to grade banks, but I can, I do this all the time for people. They, come up short on financing and markets all over the country and I can usually pick a winner, pick a bank, that'll write a loan and in a few minutes, so it's easy to spot the good ones. If they have a ton of assets in like on their balance sheet, but they don't have a ton of assets out as loans. And they've got a very light REO in their portfolio. That they're dying, the right loans, that's their business. They have to write the loans. So that's what I'm looking for. Those smaller banks where it's relationship based one to 3 billion with a healthy score and a lot of money on the books that needs off the books. And maybe that's probably a pretty good tips from the trainer video. We could do Kat, like I'll show you guys how I underwrite a bank before I even go there. And I've done this in several markets. And the other thing is, you walk in there. And when I first moved to Roanoke from Hawaii, I obviously didn't know anybody. I took 20,000 bucks, split it across four banks. Open business accounts all for the same entity and then ask for an appointment immediately. And I sat down and said, Hey, let me help me understand your underwriting process. When do you have underwriting meetings? How do you underwrite? Is this asset based or is this credit-based help me understand what your LTV and I just showed a genuine interest in having a relationship with the bank. What I've learned now that I've done this a few more times is if you go in with confidence for this entity, I'll just be transparent. I formed this company on January 20th. I think Florida finally got it recorded on the 20 on the same day that Florida note sent me an email and said, Hey, we only recorded this. I went to first citizens bank, which is now a regional bank. They're based out of Raleigh, North Carolina, but they were about a 24, $25 billion bank, super healthy. But I walked in there. I hadn't. In EIN number that the IRS hadn't had barely put in their database after they issued it literally minutes after getting my EIN brand new entity EIN 20,000 bucks. And I walked out with a $50,000 line of credit and a $75,000 credit card. And it was because they need deposit accounts and enable to gain that nine to one leverage that we give them the magic of financing. So walk in and just like we talk about with any other small business owner, if you're going to walk into an attorney's office, walk in with something to give not looking to take something the same way with the community bank, walk in and ante up, put your money on the table and be like, Hey, let's have it real relationship. This is, I'm not wasting your time. And I'm always selling that the high net worth individuals that, friends and mastermind members that, that don't really believe this. And I coach a lot of people. Through this, but just about anyone on this call can walk into a bank with a few thousand bucks, throw it in an account and name your loan terms. If you choose the right bank credit unions too, don't discount those community credit unions are nonprofits and they, but they have to move capital. That's what they do, right? So those are good to look at as well. I hope that answered your question and if you ever need help with with navigating the banking stuff, let me know, man. It's a fun game. Awesome. Appreciate it. Yeah, that was great. All right. Kat, any questions you saw that need to answer before we go or anyone else have a hand up? Nope. Roger, Lacey hide and turn your camera on. If you're going to hang out here, we need to see that pretty face. Are you doing a radio show right now? This guy. All right. If you guys don't know you're muted. There you are. Yeah, I'm doing a radio show on Tuesdays and Northwest Arkansas Weichert wizards or real estate. We're doing a lot of interviews for mayors and a lot of Northwest Arkansas is a pop-in place. Still trying to get there to visit your brother. I, Florida has held me like a month and a half longer than I expected, but I'm waiting for it to warm up so you can cook me. Rib-eyes in the backyard. It's a good, it's a good idea. And we're getting there and I think today's going to be about 70 degrees, but I've been popping in and popping out on the, on this call. And I'm glad that I managed to get in here on this, but radio shows going well, we're just getting the name out. And it's a side line of with probate and, but we're basically trying to build a recognition for the brand name and we're getting a little business out of it. Also I did want to talk about something that you mentioned earlier is I just finished up a probate. Last week we got it finished up and it was taught walking into an attorney's office and the the. The PR had been an, I have been talking about six months and she started talking to me six months ago, but I had emailed her and I had talked to her a year ago and she wasn't ready to do anything. And finally, she called me and she said, let me come over here and talk to me. This was like, you just make your once a quarter call after it should have a year or so. And just hang up, hang on to her and just see how things are going. And she said we've made a decision. We've got an attorney. And lo and behold is my sister's estate. And she has one step son and the, in the family and and he's in Florida and I said, Oh, wow. Okay. And she said my attorneys told me that I'm going to have to get an inventory on all of the stuff that's in the house. And so I said let me come over and let's talk about this. And I learned. Early on in, in this business. When I go to the house, Chad beat me up for not having a listing agreement with me. And so I just happened to do some quick comps on the house and and I was just walked around and I went Oh, and I sit there and I went she should the attorney said that he only thinks it'll bring about a hundred thousand dollars and I just sit there and went, no I'm thinking it will be more than that. And I pulled open and I said, yeah, that's a that, but tell me about your attorney. Oh, Mr. Benjamin. He's been there. And I said, tell me more about you, Betty, Joe, I need to know more about you and what's been going on with this house. And she said I've been paying, making mortgage payments on this house for two years because the air in a caliph in, in Florida has been really hard to deal with. And he's got an attorney up here in Arkansas now that my attorney has got to deal with and I'm sitting there going, okay, so we got to do a broker's price opinion for this one. This is going to be, I want to see everything. That's a value in the thing. And I said, now, did you tell me he was a step son? Was he not a biological son? Did you not adopted by your sister? And she said, no, that's absolutely right. And I said that's one of those things. I'm just going to let the attorney deal with that. Let me to, let me see what I can do to help you. Now, you said that you've been making the mortgage payment for two years on this house? Yes. How much is your mortgage payment that you've been paying $500 a month. Holy cow, Betty Jo, you got $12,000 in as an, as a credit as that this estate owes you on this house. Yes. And I said, I looked at the mortgage and I said, she's had a mortgage on it. For number of years, I'm guessing she's got maybe $60,000 in it. She should I don't know about that. And I said I can confirm that's not a problem. I think that we need to take a look at this house and it needs a, is there anything that needs to be fixed real quick? Though, Sink the garbage disposal in the kitchen and leaks, and they're just not going down. And it said, no problem. I think we can fix that. And she said, end the garage door doesn't work. And I said, no problem with that. I walked around and I'm looking for. Will this house FH. I don't want to sell it to, to to an investor. It can go to an investor in a heartbeat, but I just sit there and I started walking around and I'm going, this house will FHA. Let me go look at the roof. That's the next thing I'm looking at is what's the condition of the roof. It looks okay to me. And I said, Betty, Jo, I think we can sell this house for about let's put it on the market for 147. And and she said whatever you think the attorney thinks it's, it'll go for a hundred thousand. I said that's what the County records assessment shows. And she said, you think it'll go for 147? No. And then she said why are you putting it at 147? I said, that's where we're going to start with this market right here, the way we're at. It'll probably go one 55, one 56 on that. And she said you're going to have to talk to Mr. Bingaman about that. And I sat there and I went, I love to talk to Mr. Bingham and I'm on my way after you signed this right here to get the, get me started on this. And she looked at me, she said, what are you going to talk to him about? I said I'm going to tell him he's going to get his his appraisement so they can get it in front of the court. And I understand that there's an era note over there. I have an estate seller and we can't do a, an auction because of COVID. But we will do a a a tag sale on this. And like you said, I knew three auctioneer's and three of them walked through the house and said, no, there's not enough in here. And. Just sit there and I went okay. Give me somebody that will, and he said here's one just getting started out. I, okay. I call Chris, Chris came over and he said, I need to do something like this. I need to get it. Fill up the time I've got another tag sale that I'm doing. Another tagging sale. Can't do auctions, but I can do auctions. We did that. And there was a car involved. And so Betty Jo wanted a car and it was a problem with Betty Jo. She really wanted this. I think it was like a 2005 Elantra and I sit there and I went, what's the blue book on it. And it's like about three to $1,500, $1,600. And and so I said, Chris, what are we gonna do with this car? And he said when we have the tag sale, I'll put a number on it, Betty Jo, how much do you want to pay for this car? And she said if it's worth $1,500 and I said, no, Betty Jo, that's not the question that we're asking is somebody comes in with a $1,600 and is we have a tag sale on it for $1,500. It's gone to that other person. How much do you want to pay for this? And she looked at me and she said, Oh, and I said, whatever you say is going to be the reserve on this property, on this car. So you'll get the car for whatever number that you want, because you need to make it a little higher. And what it'll do is we'll, they'll take it out of what they owe you on the payments that you've made for this. And she said, so I can get in the car for nothing. I said, no, you're getting the car for what you paid for, but you've already paid on it. And she said, Oh, $30,000. So she overpaid for it. $3,000. We got through that. And I took my did we got through that? I got to Mr. Bingham and his office. He said one 47, Roger, this house is old and it's got no updates on it. And I said, but it'll FHA. It'll ha I will sell it to a home buyer and they'll get financing on it and we just gotta make sure it's they sound and sanitary. He looked at me, he said, you got a listing agreement signed here for one 47. I have it listed with the at the adjustment at the courthouse rate of a hundred thousand. And then he started wagging his finger at me and he said, you have to adjust defy why it didn't sell for this. And you're going to have to do this because I know it'll sell for a hundred thousand. And I just looked at him and I said, you're a great attorney, Mr. Bingaman let me do it. He looked at me, he looked at me and he showed okay. But I'm really concerned about this price that you put on it. We got six offers on the house. Two of them were 160,000. We went in and I laid it out in front of Betty, Jo. And I said here's the six offers. And she looked at it and had her niece and her her husband there. And I went through the spreadsheet and I said, here's the multiple offers. We need to just look at these two at a one 60 and the net. And. We looked at the interest rate on the pre quals. We picked one, it closed a couple of weeks later. And Betty Jo has got her $12,000 lesser car payment driving her new car on it. And so everything went well. Mr. Benjamins looked at me and he said, I would've never believed it. And I said, you're a good attorney, Mr. Benjamin, God bless you. And Roger, thanks for the story. I feel like, gosh, every time I call somebody out, we get one of these great stories I need to keep that in mind. And Rosie, I just looked at the chat while Roger was sharing. And sounds like you got some good ones too. We're almost 90 minutes in. I know everybody's busy. Rosie, I wanna you and L and then we'll, we're going to wrap up for today. So tell us about your role. All right. Can everybody hear me? We can hear you. Awesome. Hi Ted. This is so cool. They get to really see people. Oh my God. The engagement is so attire. So guys I've been in probate since last year and it was about time that I do something, so I've been doing my efforts and video marketing and just email marketing and some direct mail here and there, but most important was picking up the phone and having a conversation. Long story short we actually, this week bought two probate flips and so I had a client probate and I didn't know what letter of testamentary is guys, to be honest, I have no idea how the program works. I have to read the book and tell the Senator. I was like, you need to go to the, I said, how does the executor thing, I really need to understand their head? I need to feel like them. Then I actually just found out that not all executives get paid. So who would know that? I didn't know that. So I was talking to everyone. Everyone liked the hello piece of the pie that they're motivated to work on. Long story short, I met this seller. I've been email marketing, it's email marketing that responded back chat, and you're buying the flip for three 20 and the resale calm strike and all solar at four sanity, we might have to spend 40, 50 K on it. So I'm working with my investor and I'm bringing him as a buyer disclosing to the seller that look, these are the offers. He was willing to blow into the contract, no option period. And he said, I'm all in. I don't have any risks. So we are, I just want to be clear, you're jiving with one of your investors. That's awesome. So that your finance strategy is using other people's money. You bring the deal, he brings the expertise in the company and the project manages and it's so easy because it's full disclosure. The client knows. And I said, look, we have multiple offers. And the only benefit was you didn't have a buyer's agent, I'm paid as a listing agent in back. So she was okay with it. And yep. So we're doing our first flip on it. The second one was actually, because I was networking with some investors that are very high level. And once I learned that you guys are program masters, I just click join the groups of as smart as you guys know. So I asked questions, hundreds of people answered me. I don't know why I don't ask more questions. So this was another lead that I investor gave me. He said, look, I can't get the heirs to act. So I got to experience air. So who so mad at mom and dad, but he's willing to let the property for close rather than, working on it. So I told that story to everybody I can, so somebody can dare to take it upon because I, we all need to know. I think Lynette was on the phone. I am, I can do it alone. I don't want to do it alone. It's not fun. So I admitted and are always looking for people who can do it with me. So this investor said, Rosie, get me in front of this air. I can get through him. So that took me three months. And sometimes when you work with great investors who are very good people, I was giving up at times, like he was like, don't give up on it. Just call the air, just call him just getting in front of him. So long story short instrument been in front of him. He literally told him, look, you're missing out on lot. Put your ego behind long story short. We are under contract and moving towards affidavit of heirship overnight. All the nephews and nieces are cooperating in California Inglewood. I got to learn how to use emotional intelligence and ask questions like what and how questions. So I'm very excited, do flips and and I personally bought more investment properties too. So I'm very grateful that probate allowed me to increase my intelligence and really build wealth for myself and other people. So thank you. That's amazing. Thanks for sharing. And guys, I jumped really quickly. I don't know if I gave Roger LEC the credit he's due, pay attention to what these folks are saying. Notice the common threads in these stories. We've talked about this already on this call. You can borrow these stories. You can you can believe this is proof. This is real, right? Like you can provide this level of service. And the common threads are that people who are approaching this with a servant's mindset and Roger leasees willing to throw them in his fear of implants and just keep in touch for a year. Fed is sending holiday cards to people. If you miss that, like he is truly treating this like a real relationship, not just a lead and. Like a lot of these success stories come from those small habits like that, and really saying, how can I serve this person? And Rosie has done an amazing job, getting a, like a valuable inbound marketing strategy in place. She makes videos that are truly a value to her community. She builds relationships with investors that bring value to their business because we're all fighting the same damn fight. We're just trying to figure out how to run these small businesses we created and not make a crappy job out of it. And but pay, I love these stories because like I know there's people on here, people watch that will be watching this, that need to hear this stuff. Don't let off the gas and Rosie, you've found a great accountability partner and the form in your investor relationship. And I'm sure you didn't expect that, but he's probably to thank for you, like digging a little deeper and finding the tenacity to go get that that last contact where you got that deal. Thank you guys so much for being willing to share all this, even if I do have to poke you Roger Lacey, but thank you for sharing these stories and L up last today, LDO microphone. Nope. Sound like we have an audio loop maybe. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes, that's much better. Okay. Thank you guys. Very encouraging hearing. Rosie says, story really is quick, and this is quick. I'm a baby on this one. I'm been a real city for quite a while, but I would like to get some advice and reference of you guys, mostly the investors that have their, a real estate license. And I'm talking about the Florida ones. So I don't know if someone can give me a how give me a name so I can give them a call or to get more feedback on making sure that I am structuring the corporation or how to get everything in reference or wealth punishment, for instance. That will be it. So I read your question. I think, I can help you, but ultimately Tony and a CPA are the ones who should ultimately rule on this, but what else facing as she and her husband, our team both have licenses, but she wants to act as the investor as a principal in a transaction where her husband is the fiduciary, he has the listing agent and what you need to like, my advice is separate. The entities don't ever commingled funds or activities from your brokerage entity with an investment entity. You're just asking for trouble. There's a, there's this gap in our industry that exists. And I had a two hour conversation with a pretty high profile guy this morning about this. And we're like, what can we do about this? We need to reach more people with this message, but. People would rather tattle tale and the brokerage community, they would rather tattle tale and drag you into try to create liability for you. Then they would, bridge the gap and actually embrace the investors. Like a lot of folks on this call are so just know it's going to happen. If you start to co-mingle activities and finances with investment and brokerage, you will eventually find yourself in hot water because the state investigator will be digging through your stuff and it's just not worth it. So set up an entity for your Investment company. My suggestion, like knowing a little bit about your structure, I would suggest probably a single member, LLC, taxed as an S Corp. So you're going to get the benefit of an escort from the IRS and the protection of an LLC from the state of Florida. I would make it a Florida LLC. It's really, it's an easy state to form those in. You want to have a CPA and your attorney, make sure they agree with me on this, but that's how I've structured. It. I've had investigations opened on me multiple times and they closed. And one phone call. Never even had the right letters or send proof. I just said, Nope, actually here's the truth. And he would go look at the Depot, the Depor in Virginia. So he would go look at my professional license status. He would look at my LLC filings and then he could clearly see that the business was differentiated. The reason I kept getting reported is that created a brand and I had professional signs and I had lockboxes on my investor houses and realtors would report me for practicing brokerage without a license. I'm like it says on the sign owner operator, like I had the disclaimers on the sign, but because I had a professional image, they just assume this new guy from Hawaii was, and rather than call me and say, Hey man my name is Joe. What are you doing here? Like they just reported me to the state. So it was my burden to defend myself. I didn't do anything wrong. So it was easy. It was open and closed like that, but it will eventually happen. So even on the very first deal, don't risk it set up an LLC. Again, your CPA can decide that I would suggest an LLC taxed as an S Corp. And if you want to add extra layers of protection, you have Eno insurance. I'm operating under assumption, but most active realtors have Eno, but as another layer of protection, so separate bank accounts. This is. You may not need a trust. The depends on what all activity you're going to do from your investment entity, but you should, at a minimum, you should have, you don't even need an entity for your brokerage business. If you don't want one, that can be a sole proprietorship that Eno gives you the most of the protection you'll ever need. Now. If you're already making over 140 grand in revenue, you should probably roll your license into an LLC taxes and escort because you're gonna end up saving a considerable amount of money on not paying FICA. But that potentially could be its own LLC taxes and escort as well as the new entity. What you want to do is get an an umbrella policy that will cover you for at least a million dollars. And that overlays your, the liability protection of the LLC, the state laws and your Eno insurance. Okay, perfect. So that's all you really need. Now, if you start holding properties, as far as your trust question, it's a good idea to buy the property then to land trust. I love land trust because of the anonymity. So they're there a lot of benefit and very little expense associated with using a land trust as the actual entity. So your new LLC will be the beneficiary and probably the trustee of the new land trust. But on the contract, when you make the offer, it will be the one to three Walnut street land trust, or the, just don't use your name. Don't use your company name, with the anonymity of a trust, it's foolish to connect it to your name or your company name. Because you lose the anonymity and if you want, I would suggest if you're going to use trust, use, make it an attorney, the trustees, Oh, you have attorney client privilege. So if anyone ever do would try to start a next thing, but they're not going to get far. And even if an attorney gets involved, he's going to hit attorney client privilege and that's not. And he the trustee on your LLC, you should also be the registered agent for your LLC. Nothing comes to your house. Got it. Yeah. And there's people that I can point you to that are right there in your market. L but I like, it's not that complicated. I gray Robinson as a firm here in, in Florida. You've probably know them. That's the firm. I like they are, they're the Pearson specter Litt, if you ever watched suits, like they're the heavy hitters in Florida, they've got great corporate attorney. They have great real estate attorneys. So if you need a referral, they're not the cheapest, but you can damn sure that your bases are covered. If you're working with them. The question you did say about rolling based on the amount that you make in real estate into an LLC. So you were just mixing the real estate side into the investor side. Is that for tax purposes? Liability purposes. So if you set these up as single, you guys filed jointly. Yep. Yeah. You could set up the brokerage entity as one of you and the investment as the other, as a single member, LLC, your marriage license is going to tie the assets together so you can set them up. Packs them as escorts, they're all flow through. It's all gonna come to you, as flow-through income anyways, and you're going to be taxed on it. The savings come then, like you pay your paycheck from one entity and his, from the other. And that's where once you exceed, a certain like certain revenue, I think it's 138 five last year, but once you exceed that, then FICA drops off. So you're saving like 6.6, 3%. I believe it is like off the top. Like once you exceed and I'll just a safe number as once you exceed $150,000 in revenue, I a S Corp or an LLC taxes and escort conserve you just by saving a ton of taxes and giving you the legal protection, you get the, the best of both worlds. I was wondering because I have the S-corporation and what you're saying is so I guess if I opened the, we already have the escort, like you probably. Yeah. Yeah. So I would probably suggest that you just, it's easier to maintain it and cheaper to maintain an LLC and Florida has really good case law. So I would recommend for your investment activity, do the LLC you can tax it as an S Corp and get that same benefit. Yeah. Fed my email is [email protected] If you want to send me something guys, listen, we met those two hours at time flies when you're having fun. Doesn't it. Listen, man, this, my heart loves these calls. Thank you guys for being here. This is a blast. Thanks for all your stories, all your contributions, all all the wins. And please guys, if you have any feedback, anything that you feel like might make these calls better or something flows, suggestions or anything like that, please let us know. It's Chad at Magnum Opus, or Kat K a T at Magnum Opus project. And let us know what we're doing. Great. What we can do better and we'll bring it back to these calls. And these will be recorded. We decided last week after the fact that we're actually going to archive these in the Facebook group for now. We also put them out on a podcast player, set a little easier for you to take on your phone. And if you look in the top menu of probate, you'll actually see the podcast link up there. I believe it's live today. So again guys from the bottom of my heart, thanks for being here for your contribution. I will see you next week. Sure.