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In this episode, real estate agents and investors dive into success stories and deal analysis. You'll hear how Larry got 16 properties in the pipeline from ONE probate lead; how Winston is building a real estate referral relationship with an attorney; how Courtney is helping a probate family explore creative finance options in the face of foreclosure; and how email marketing compares to probate cold calling.
🕛🕛Timestamp Navigation 🕛🕛 (YouTube Links)
0:00 Introductions and Announcements
3:20 Reverse mortgage, Foreclosure, and Short Term Rentals (Wholesaling Probate)
7:42 The Reverse Mortgage Okie-Doke with Due-On-Sale
10:02 Probate lead generation wins (Success Story)
29:21 Winning Attorney Referrals - The PR is an Estate Planning Attorney! (Success Story)
33:32 Can bankruptcy stop or delay foreclosure?
35:22 Email and Cold Call Marketing Plan for Probate Leads (Probate Marketing)
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Hey, good afternoon. I'm Bill Gross. Welcome to the Probate Mastery Alumni Weekly call. We do this every Tuesday, 12 noon Pacific, 3:00 PM Eastern Time, and this is really designed for people when they ask the question"Well, how do we get started in building a business in probate real estate, either as an investor or wholesaler, or as a real estate agent? And I get asked this question a lot and, to me, the answer is not a service you subscribe to. It's a process of commitment to becoming an expert. Chad Corbett, was my coach in Probate when I started about, years ago. And he challenged us to be experts, not in terms of crossing a finish line to become an expert, but to take on the attitude of always looking to improve, learn more, and be of more value to our customers. On the premise that the money we make is a reflection of the value we create for other people. The Chad Corbett's program is probate mastery.com, and you might wanna check out there, there's a, bundle being optioned through the end of the year. You can get probate mastery and the EARN program, which is the second stage. Earn attorney referrals now. And you can buy both together for a discount. But in addition, all that, you'll see this, call we call podcast and there's the home for it and there's my good looking picture and there's, past episodes broken down by the titles. Great resource. And then a link here to the YouTube channel and the Facebook group, as well as the other courses. So this is a great resource for you to ask questions. And if you go to the blog, again, if you're looking to become an expert in probate real estate, numerous different step-by-step questions, challenges, and links back to the podcast to solve this problem. So that's on the ProbateMastery.com. And so towards that, we have this coaching call every week for those of us who are working on building and approving our business. One step at a time, when day at a time we get together and share ideas and best practices, work on problems together. So I'd love to have you participate again, plenty of free resources and this phone call is every week. How much does it cost? Anybody wanna help me with that? This call costs how much free? It's free. 99. My favorite price for anything. So love to have you come, love to have you bring your challenges, your problems, your victories. Your failures so we can help you get back up and networking. We talked to Elizabeth in New Mexico. We talked to David, who's in Atlanta. And Courtney's from North Carolina and Winston's in California. So four people I hit are already saying hi in four different states. So put in your name and your contact info where you service and if you have a particular, oh, and there's Sherry from Houston. Looks like, another state. Feel free to network in there and share your best practices, share your victories cuz we all wanna help you guys get, get better. We all wanna work together and I also need places to refer business out too. Oh, and Sheriff Patrick McDermott is in Massachusetts. Home of the hated Celtics. We all hate the Celtics. right? Yes. So, okay, so who has a victory or a problem you wanna share with the group today? If you're watching this on replay. You can come on this live by registering on the website. Courtney, see? Is that there? How are you. Yeah. Hey. Hi, bill. Thanks for always sharing and hosting and all. Man. This is awesome. Here I do have a lead. I actually have under contract with, that the property owner has a reverse mortgage. The mom has, Power of attorney. However, I did tell her as we went in to lock it up, cuz I've been working for a while that I don't think there's enough equity in therefore it to be a, you know, a traditional, you know, uh, assignment or a wholesale and I'm not familiar with any techniques for like, uh, sub2 or anything like that, if it's a reverse mortgage. I was looking at possibly a seller novation and I'm just wondering if you or anyone has any other strategies for helping her with this reverse mortgage. Okay, so a seller novation as I understand novations just an agreement to change the sales price. Well, we've, way, way I've used it in the past is, um, because I don't have an, uh, a license. You, there's a way I can basically, I'm replacing myself with the seller. It's almost like signing a contract. But yeah. But I, I have more exposure to more traditional mls, you know, buyers are gonna walk in as is as a home as opposed to, you know, rehab or a buyer wanting it for a deeper discount. So the problem with the reverse mortgage is the reverse mortgage lender gets notified of the death and there's a due on sale clause and they're gonna call it due on sale. And you say it's too skinny to do wholesale, why would that be? If it's too skinny to wholesale, does, is there cash flow. So there's an underlying mortgage. Could you refinance or replace that mortgage and cash flow the property, or do you want to just try to take the property subject to maybe. And just know that you're gonna get foreclosed on. But if you can sign somebody a month to like an Airbnb, is it worth Airbnb for three months? Six months? Yeah, maybe. Maybe for Airbnb you can refinance and pay off the mortgage using commercial. I don't know the numbers there, but, it would depend on what you can get for the property. Where's the property at? What kind area? Alright. It's in Baltimore, Maryland. It, it could be a rental area, yeah, that is an idea to help. Suggest that she or even I could take a look at to see if something I could add as a rental portfolio if anyone wants to do that and get the equity down or get it down enough for a refinance once, if terms start making more sense, or, or even if it just makes sense down the road. Okay. The problem is a reverse mortgage is probably called on fairly soon. They don't, my experience with them is you call 'em on the phone and they're all nice. Oh yeah, we'll work with you. Oh, we're, we're a nice company. We're good people. And they, it's like they hang up the phone, Joe file the foreclosure 123 Main Street right away! Uh, and what they do is, and the way they get around is they sell the loan to another servicer. And so, oh, well, you know, we sold the loan. We don't collect anymore. But that servicer is really their company. Mm-hmm.. And it's a company that's just foreclosures and usually it's like a law firm, so they can't get sued. And it, and, and so it sounds like, oh wow, we sold the loan. Sorry. No, no. You assigned it to your related company that's really just a foreclosure. Basically, it's a group of alligators, and crocodiles that you chase after people on properties and you'll never talk them trying to work out a deal out. And be careful with the rentals because. You know, uh, I don't know Baltimore, but you get people in, getting 'em out can be challenging. And then if the loan gets called due, what's your liability? So you can't really give a long lease. You have to have one that is subject to them. Uh, of course the nice thing is at that point, it's not your problem, it's their problem. I had a client recently called me up and they found that the property that was vacant, they didn't need me. The property's vacant, called back, oh, we have a problem. Somebody, broke into the property. It was gated and boarded. And then they, they broke in and then they rented it to somebody. Wow. Now my client has a, a squatter or a fraudulent renter or somebody, it depends on what you call legally. So then on her own, she's talking to the guy saying, well, let's you know, we probably can't sell it for a few months cuz I'm in probate, so you know, will you pay me monthly rent? I said, well, hold on. Once they pay you rent, they're a tenant. And in California it's a little hard to get them out than in other states. So, I said, you need to get proper legal advice before you start accepting money because that money you accept for a month or two and they can just stop paying rent and live there. And in my experience in California, they could be there for six months or a year and you're stuck with 'em. Baltimore definitely has favorable tenant laws, so, I'll at least give her some options this, and that might be one that's viable for her, at least make something, put some equity back in there or do something with it instead of just sitting there. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that, Courtney. Thanks. While you're there, why don't you put, why don't you make sure you put in the chat box your YouTube channel if you're looking to learn more about probate real estate, Courtney Rollins is lightening up YouTube on probate topic. Hey, thanks. I absolutely will. Thanks man. Sure. Sheriff Patrick McDermott says The bank did that to my dad's reverse mortgage. I see that now, every time with reverse mortgages, the customer always calls me and says, oh, I talked to the reverse mortgage. It was so nice. Oh, they said, they'll work with me. They're gonna consider it, write them a letter. Oh, and, and then my attorney wrote them nice letter attorney, cost me a couple hundred dollars to write the letter, but they feel so good. And then like two weeks later, The loan servicing magically changes . It's related to the company, but it's not the same people. And then next thing you know, they filed a 90 day notice of default and that whole process begins. So yeah, the reverse mortgages, they don't play anymore. Now that might just be California. I can't speak for the whole country. California has really made the foreclosure process very prohibitive for lenders. And so as a result of the lenders are getting very, very challenging on holding properties, open for anybody. Larry says you still have two six month extensions. I don't know Larry by California. I don't think so. Maybe, I don't see that happening anymore. I see six months and they just go to file. And, um, even with attorneys have not, I've not seen them get extensions on. So, who else has a question, challenge, problem, victory? I'll, I'll just share as I look back at the end of the year, there's, uh, Courtney's information. You wanna check out his YouTube channel. You know, I launched my YouTube channel a year and a half ago. I have over 1500 subscribers. It's amazing the impact it's had on my business. All my business development now is, is really online. Um, I created a Facebook group. I bought 2000 people in that. And, um, so that's just been a fantastic blessing and this group's been a big part of it. Learning what to do at, what to say, how to say it, and then meeting other people, larry's got his hand up. Go on Larry. What's um, Happy New Year to you. Thank you. Happy new to you as well. Thanks so much. Yeah, awesome. Hey, um, yeah, I can only speak to HECMs I got quite a bit of experience in the reverse mortgage area, so mm-hmm. HECMs do not change their stripes no matter what state they may go in, so the extensions are in. Now. If they're not a HECM them, then you know, California law could very well fall into a much more stringent foreclosure. So that may be what you're running into, but typically, for anybody listening, that'd be a great question to ask. If it was insured by FHA, HECMs meaning home equity conversion mortgage, for those that don't know the technical term, but that's not why I called or why I checked in with this. So, I got a phone call, couple of weeks ago from a caretaker, and this, uh, gentleman was in the hospital and, somehow he jumped online. He found me. I, I don't know how he did it cuz I, I couldn't find myself when I tried to find myself, but he did. anyways, he's got, his wife has passed away and, uh, he did what most people did.... Four months ago she died. He's done nothing. And, uh, then he had a serious health scare. Had to go to the hospital. His caretaker found me and, brought me up to speed. But what had happened is that the, wife had gone out and purchased right now, we counted seven or eight properties. She had seven properties that she bought in her name only. and even though they're married, she bought 'em in her own name. Those immediately have to be probated. And the, then the other seven properties they had are owned jointly. Both of 'em had will, but they were not done at the same time. And they were wills that you actually saw on the bottom that there was a internet related, like simple, typical generic boiler plate wills that didn't really hit all the high points, but were notarized. And yeah, any rate, I've got all these properties now. So I go to meet him at the hospital and he tells me, by the way, there's also two more that don't even show up anywhere that I had to go find in another county. So now we're up to 16 properties and he's got two kids. This is real stuff. I thought it'd be a good, good topic. We have two kids. One is in Australia, another one's in California. Haven't been back in 25 years. The wife's gone, and now he's relying on a caretaker that is one of his tenants. So e everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. The rents were all paid to the wife. The wife had her own banking account. All the rents were deposited in the wife's banking account, of which he was still using, and they weren't aware that she was dead. So, just a, a complete mess. So we're we're going in, we filed probate and started the process. How fun? I'm surprised when, normally now when somebody passes, again, I, I only live in California, but I thought this was national. The death cert has their social security number on it, which used to be a security problem, but now there's a database, social Security makes available to lenders and they closed down bank accounts right away. So I'm surprised that he was able to use the bank account after the wife passed. Cuz normally that wouldn't be possible unless he's a, that might be a clue that he's joint on the account. He may not know. It might be her account, but he's also on it. So makes it really his account too. Yeah. It, it turned out he wasn't So, how could that be? Well, the, the, the bank, he's been with the bank 25 years and it's kinda like they see one, they think another. So it's like, I guess, I don't know, it's sloppy. But anyways, you know, he had written a check to the lawyer at the hospital for his retain. and it came off the wife's account and he said if she, if he doesn't have signing privileges, that check is not gonna be good. So they had to replace the check, but it's a, that's another, another hornets nest to, to get involved in. But in the meantime, we had'em reach out to all the tenants and have them now direct those payments to his name in his own bank account, because literally he has money. from all these properties, but he didn't have anything because they were all on his wife's account. And he, he's of sound mine now? He's just, he has some physical issues, sounds like, but is he mentally full capacity. For right now? It's, it's, it's, it's close. Yeah. He, he was able to understand questions. He was limited in his responses. I'm not sure if there was not a stroke involved there, but he was cognizant and he was able to answer questions and react to statements made. So the, the attorney that I brought over there felt like he was uh, competent, but now he's rushing to put together an estate plan for him. I was gonna say be because. He said, he goes, while we're working on the probate, which is gonna take some time, we have to put an estate plan in him that will carry out his wishes, should he pass. Right. So there, there's some complications there, right? And he still wants to take care of the two children that he hadn't seen in 25 years. And yeah, it's, it is just crazy. But it's Just, I just thought I would share that with you. I didn't know what anybody's thoughts were he, he, he actually brought up the idea of owner financing to his tenants. which would be a great idea, but. The properties are in areas where the land is now far worth more than the, these small little houses and mobile homes are. Mm-hmm.. And if you went to owner finance those, I doubt the tenants could actually afford the payments now that they're paying for rent. So, it's gonna be a, an interesting, it's nice that he wants to do something like that. I don't know how feasible it'll be for the tenants to be able to afford those payments with a new amortization schedule on 'em. Wow, what an exciting opportunity. You know, I, I, yeah, it is. I had a client who had a father who was ill in a conservatorship, and I was able to help her sell a bunch of the properties and other ones. I wasn't, I think, I think, you know, I don't know that she would agree with me, but in retrospect, clearly she took on too much and I should have been a little more supportive and taking on a little bit more for her. You know, attorneys will be, will access the fiduciary and charge of fortune. And, and the challenge here is how do you, how do you act as the estate's best interest? And you have multiple heirs and, and not get sued by either one of 'em and cover your costs and such. But what an exciting opportunity you have. I see that richard Galloway asked the question, who's going to be the PR? In this case right now, the husband will be the PR or in Texas they're known as executors only, that counts for men and women. Now they're all executors in the state of Texas, but he is for now who will back him up on that? I'm not sure. But yeah, so it it's a case where he needs to get the seven properties probated and then he needs to tie them all up. What we're thinking, bill, and this is a thought, so anybody that wants to jump in here, the thought was is that we take all the properties and we got several that are commercial acreage properties involved in this. We have 10 properties that are on either mobile homes or small houses, large lots. The, the land value as far outweighs the, the house values. Then I've got six other properties com combination of residential commercial that I, I'm gonna suggest to them that they probably sell those for cash. And then if you'd like to owner finance that as a block to an investor group, I think that would be a really good play for them. But kind of spitballing, maybe some ideas. How would you, so the idea was early on was to possibly move all the properties into an LLC that the husband would control. and then he can name the heirs and successors and whoever else would control that LLC long after he's passed on. But then the LLC would be selling these properties. The money would come into the LLC and be distributed out of the LLC, and the rents would come into the LLC. And if it's cash flowing from a owner finance, they would go and tell the LLC that'd have one bank account that was kind of. Rough off the top of my head cuz it just got hit with it and I had pulled the D records and met the attorney. So that was kind of some of the ideas that we started with. If anybody or you Bill have an idea how you might look at that or what your suggestions would be? I'd be open to hear them. Well, yeah, LLL C and then you have the stock of the LLC put in the trust. I think to my, to my concern would be get everything into a an estate plan and proper living trust as quick as possible, because if he passes in the next 30, 60 days, you're gonna have a huge mess on your hands. Mm-hmm., I've gone through that and I think that I would get it, everything in at, you can always get it in the trust and then re once it's in the trust, you have a trustee who can rearrange everything. Okay. But I would race to get it in the trust because that's gonna change things from a tax point of view and, and make control a lot easier. Even in Texas, all those properties, it's gonna be a mess if he passes while. before they get into a trust. So that my way of thinking, that's the major thing for those who listening here. Now, Larry, when did you start marketing in probate real estate? Let's see. My letters went out in September, like I said, at the top of the call actually found me online, right? On my website. Yeah. How long have you had a probate related website? Three months. I mean, and, and, and you know, it's the generic one. I hope you guys are all paying attention here. Yeah, it's the generic one. And the the guy said of all the websites I looked at, yours was the most engaging and seemed to be the most encompassing. And I figured, why not call you? I talked to one attorney and he was a real negative, and he goes, and then I saw your website. I read, you know, a couple pages. I said, this is my guy. And he called me right. And made the introductions and there we go. So, yeah, but it, it could potentially, could be 16 properties. 16 deals or a combination of deals with an investor group that might buy a chunk of that portfolio, particularly the the performing ones. So it, it could be a lot of fun. And your website is Denton County Probate Solutions. That's right. And I, I, I don't think it's, if you listen closely, what, what he was saying, it wasn't just the websites. Also, he fielded the phone call. And I think that, that one of the key things is marking has to be authentic. So this, this comes across as somebody who's professional and caring and they reached him and he was professional and caring. And so I, you know, I, I don't think anything magical about the website, I think it's a, to me it's a kinda like a, a basic. Entree. And then, but at the same time, you've gotta be on these calls and in this material regularly and learning. So when you do get that phone call, you convert it into business. And that's what I think important. And then Larry, you, you're doing mailers since September. Are people calling you as a result of mailers or are you calling separately or tell me about that. Yeah, so, so no, no unfortunately no one picks up the phone call cuz they got a letter. It's interesting, I've heard you talk about this before and I think it's worth re reminding ourselves again, is that When I do get ahold of someone on the phone, Most of the time they'll go, I do remember getting your letter. I now I recall I got your letter. And it is a nice segue and they're going real great. Well then you probably know that, you know, I got a group of people here that can help and all different kinds of ways, not just the real estate, but everything else in between. And that usually leads to like, well, what do you mean? And it kind gives you an idea to go with estate sales and yard sales and all kinds of stuff that they need and they're not even thinking about, but. What has been really helpful with the the letters is that it does give you the segue to talk to, to have a little bit of credibility. And I will say this, the, the, I, I did have one other win bill that I wanted to share with you. It was last Friday I got a phone call. We have this big freeze hit Texas, so the people that are on the call are from Texas know, or it probably affected other parts of the country. She called me because I had made the point she told me in her house was that her sister's house wasn't insured. And I told her, I said, this is back in October. I said, well, gosh, I hope, hope we don't have a big freeze or a tornado. Come and tear the house up if that's all the value of the estate. And she goes, it is. And I said, you should get it insured. And she goes, okay, I will. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. And I gave her a resource. She didn't do anything. She called me. She goes, I woke up this morning. I'm thinking about your letter. I got three. Your third letter and I'm thinking, I got this uneasy feeling. You know, I never did anything about insuring that property, . I said, oh my gosh. So I got her a plumber to cut the water off cuz they had already cut off the heat to the house. This is a perfect storm. And got the water turned off and now she's getting insured today. But that was kind of, kind of cool because it was the third letter and she kind of finally just picked up the phone and she had talked to me one time, had not talked to me again, and then she got the letter, then she picked up the phone and called me. So, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a slow process, but you know, the winds when they come are nice. How many people you, you've been mailing out for three months. How many people have do you think you've spoke to as a result of you making phone calls? You said none have called you in, but you call 5, 10, 20 a month. Yeah, man, some of these lists are crazy. Like I could talk to a lot of people and then some of them you just can't get anybody to answer. But you know, on average it's probably about 10. So if I call a hundred, you know, when I call through a hundred, I'll probably talk to 10 people, you know, so pretty much. And I tried leaving messages. Tried not leaving messages and Bill is right? It doesn't matter. You can leave messages. Oh, they're not gonna say that again. Say that again. I like that. I love him. Bill is right. Thank you. You can leave messages now. Thank you. The only, now if you listen to Chad, he'll tell you, Hey, it's an impression. But I can tell you Bill was right, that if you leave a message, they are not calling you back. That, that's, that's a fact. If you had a guess though, in the three months, how many people you think you've talked to as a result of you calling. Probably no more than 30. Okay? And so what I would say is those 30 phone calls, if, if none of those resulted in the deal, I don't know if that's true or not, but let's imagine none did. But all they did was make you better, stronger, more ready. So when this one phone call with all these properties calls you in, was it worth it? Oh, absolutely. And that's the part that's lost when I talk to agents. They'll say, oh, I call a hundred people. Most aren't home. Well, right. Most aren't home. Most don't answer, only 10 do it as, as Larry said, and other 10 most don't list with you. Yeah, most don't. That's kind of true, but, and I'm not saying do it pointlessly, because there are people make a living making those calls and getting listings, but. You need to talk to people to develop the skills so when somebody is referred to you by an attorney or your website or your YouTube channel, you're able to convert it from a inbound phone call into an appointment or into a contract. Otherwise, none of that stuff matters. I think a lot of. Real estate agents in particular and in wholesalers and investors think, well, if I could just pay a company to get inbound leads, I would solve my problem. No, now your problem is conversion. You've paid for the leads, now you still have to convert. And that's the skill you have to develop. So thank you for sharing that and let me walk you through that. And then I also. I know a little bit about Denton County. I know it's just north of Fort Worth, Dallas. Mm-hmm., that's right. Would you call it s you know, suburban? Would you call it semi-rural? How would you describe where you live? It's, it's more suburban, although, I mean, we still got some rural areas in Denton County. still not for long, but yeah, we still more, more urban now than than the other. But I will, I will tell you also another thing Bill that got me ready for that was actually, you know, taking on your challenge that you, you had had in the EARN course was to actually go to court. So, you know, I took that up early on. It was a, I, I think it probably took my confidence level up 10th fold and just, just, you know, going to court and seeing how things work and who the players are. And it's not near as scary as you think it will be. It, it is actually fairly administrative in nature than, than legal in nature. But helpful. Good. Good. Well, I love hearing that. I'm right, so thank you for sharing that, . Absolutely. Even though last week you voted for somebody else, but we changed your vote, so , I can not counter. Anyhow, look, congratulations, continuous success. Let's stay in touch and hear how you progress with this. And I think the other thing, you know, in business, in in real estate, the mistake we make is we treat it like a job where we chase a transaction, get paid, chase one, get paid, chase one get paid. The goal of a business is to build an asset. And so, The goal of this business, yes, you want to close and make these deals, you can. That's great. Make the customer happy. That's important. But this also gives you a lot of credibility with other attorneys and other families. And so we want to be asked the question, how can we use this work to build your business in the long run social media? whether it be, you know, making videos on it or writing blog posts about it, or just sharing it with people as you talk to 'em on the phone. But we really and also relationships along the way. You say you referenced out insurance agent obviously have more chances for that than more business you do. But all those vendor relationships are potential referral sources back to you. So think about how to leverage this. There's nothing. You know, for the last two years, monkeys could sell houses. Literally. You could take a monkey with a sign, put 'em on the boulevard, and they'd get a listing once in a while, and it would sell. Now it's gonna require professionals. This is where the rubber hits the road. The fact you're doing it is attractive to prospective sellers, they're gonna maybe list with somebody else who'll drop the ball or talk to somebody who know what to say and be concerned and come to you like this one did, it sounds like. And so you wanna really look at how you can leverage this business for more business going forward. So congratulations. Yeah, I love that. And I am gonna bill on that very topic, what you just said is foundational truth building a. And leveraging. I, I'm excited about doing more of that this year. Fantastic. Fantastic. Thank, thanks so much for happy holidays. Happy New Year. You too. And again, the website is denton county probate solutions.com. It's in the chat box. Feel free to check out his website there and reach out to him. And then he the question Richard had a question always back, who's gonna be the PR and the probates? And I think the answer he gave was, he wasn't quite clear yet how they're gonna handle all that. So, whether it be attorney doit or, or he doing as a fiduciary, Okay. Hand up. I see Winston Covington, always glad to have you join us, Winston from the oc. What's up, Man thanks, bill. Actually, I wanted to say something to Larry. I found your story very inspirational today, so thank you. It's a great way for me to end the year with that thought and build on what you said, bill as well for next year. But, Couple things for me. Back to reverse mortgages here. Earlier in the year, I had a referral from an estate attorney. They had someone that, that had reverse mortgage. A lady passed away almost a full year back. They, they, it was actually a year plus because they'd only filed the foreclosure. The foreclosure sale was two weeks away, and as tough as it was, I was able to postpone that so they could work that out. So it can be done, but it took a lot of tenacity and a lot of work working with the lender. You know, we had a cash buyer provided all the documentation. And they ended up giving us a six month extension. They used to, they called it a Covid extension, but I didn't care what they called it. They gave it to us. Yeah, so can be done. But a recent success story that just closed on Thursday, just before Christmas last week, is I was going through my list of referrals. This one was not that far up from where I lived, maybe less than a mile. So I drove past it and the outside needed some work. Talked to a couple of the neighbors there cause I sold houses in the area and they kind of gave me the scoop of what had happened. The lady had passed away and there was a caretaker that didn't really take care of things. Went to call the PR and something said, Google this guy first. Okay. Googled them and found out that he is an attorney himself. Called up and said, Hey, you know I live in the area, I know the neighborhood. I said, my gardener lives in the area. It doesn't look really good. I'm happy to go ahead and have him take care of it for you. He really appreciated that. He just kinda left it with that, sent him some pictures after. It'd been cleaned up before. Then after, so then I sent him some information about, you know, what's going on in the area of the comps, title background, call him up. He appreciated that and I asked him, you know, what could I do to help you? Cuz he knew who I was. He knew what I, what I do. But I wasn't really pushing him. I wanted to prove value. I wanted to prove service and let him know that I was somebody that had a team that could help him. He said, well, we're having a problem getting the caretaker out. So I went to go see him. You know, we, we didn't work it out real well, I thought... but we eventually worked it out, got him out. He was very appreciative of that. I said, look, you gotta get the property secured; do I have permission to have locksmith come in. He says, please do. He, he was an attorney out of the area. Had that taken care of, paid for it myself. So you, I wouldn't invite anybody to do all this, but you know, just for good faith sent him proof of everything I did. Well, once I changed the locks, I set up a key. Okay. And we got together met each other kind of a short impromptu meeting. I wasn't dressed as a business here. I was kind of in my gribbles from, you know, working around my house. You said, Hey, just come on down. We met, walked through the house, he can see they needed a lot of work. I said, I've just got the people. I can take care of that for you. Did that for 'em, some of the pictures we got the house emptied out. You, the the folks from it's that group that builds houses for, for, for families. Can't think of the name of it right now. It escapes Habitat for Humanity. Habitat for Humanity came down, picked up most of it. Got 'em a pretty nice receipt there for the estate's Final, final tax filing. He says, Hey, you earned the business. You get the listing. So, you know, I did a few more things, got it up on the market, cleaned it up really nicely by cleaning through it. It was tough because they were heavy, heavy, heavy smokers and the walls were yellow and it still, like you were walking into a huge ashtray when you walked into that house. It took some work, got that cleaned up, got it on the market, multiple offers, sold it for 20,000 over. Quick sale. Just closed it up. You know, it got the full 6% and we're looking at doing more business because along the way I did some more research and found out that he is a well known estate planning attorney in his area. So nice, nice close there just by offering service and value. And he loved the the No Trespassing sign idea. I reminded him about the lack of insurance on vacant properties. He appreciated everything that you guys have trained us and educated us. And it, the value that I'm hoping, and this is the beginning of more business in the future. Nice. Very nice. Well, thanks for sharing that good story. Just the last piece you mentioned about insurance, got a little tougher lately in California as far as insurance. If you have a good vacant property insurer, hang on to them and just know that people will say to you, oh, yeah, no, I can get that done. Don't be surprised they call back an hour later. Do you have that insurance guy? Because it it, it really has become more of a specialized practice to have anything to offer. But congratulations and again, I think it's so important to create value. I'm in business like you are, and so ,. wreaking a property. You know, I, I keep a separate credit card just for those kinds of expenses and I track them and bill the estate or the attorney or whoever. And so far I've always gotten paid back, but, you know, I'm in business. I'm may invest money where I need to to build my business and I'm not shy about that. So thanks for sharing that with us as well. Okay, great. Well, thank you, Winston. So, I see in the chat box a question coming from Joseph, that if a property in foreclosure, the heirs can file bankruptcy to stop the trustee sale in order to buy time. For the executor, for the probate process, you know, that's sometimes true and not true. You know, like everybody filing bankruptcy isn't free, costs some money and time. And then to I've also seen separately estates. In probate, just filed request the judge to hold the foreclosure if the state's gonna be damaged somehow in LA that's routinely approved in other counties in California is not Orange County, it's not, and Orange County. I saw judge literally say, Hey, you had six months since the decedent passed and they gave you whatever the grace period was. Why didn't you do anything during that time period? Why are you starting now? Because typically what happens is, There's somebody living the property, a child, a caregiver, and they go, oh wow, so-and-so died. I'm living here for free because there's no payment being made. And they get a notice in the mail and they just keep throwing 'em away. And then eventually it becomes foreclosure. So it might be true. You can get, you know, there's different ways to delay things. Bankruptcy being won. In a probate, I've seen an ex parte actions to where the judge can simply order stopping a trustee sell. But we don't wanna rely on that at the end of the day, that's still asking for something extraordinary and we always wanna try to keep our cost down and be as efficient for the estate to save money as possible. And just keep in mind that these, these answers all vary a bit from state to state and within states county to county. The laws are by state and the procedures are by county. So something that happens that maybe in one state may or may not work in your area, but I find the principles are very common and that's why we're on this calls to learn those principles. Any questions, challenges, problems? Larry back for doubles, double dipping today. What the heck? Hey what away the end of the year, right? Yeah. So, so I know, I know how you feel about leaving messages on the phone. What, what's your thoughts on email as a, as a second or third point of contact? I don't know if anyone is looking at maybe doing email to compliment their phone calls or. Or what have you. What's your thoughts on that? Well, first thing I would see in, in sales, our goal is to build a relationship. And so there's a skill of intimacy. You know, there's, there's probably the lowest levels email. The next level up is text ne next level up maybe is phone call, then maybe a Zoom call, and then meeting them in person. The goal is to move up that chain. Mm-hmm. of intimacy in your communication and. For me, you know, if I get referred somebody. Now, if you have a cold, it's against the rules to send somebody email without their permission. But if an attorney gives me somebody, his name and number and and their email address, I will try to call them and then text them while I call them and email them right away. I'll do all three. And then I'll call back again maybe the next day or the end of the day. And again, I'll do all three because some people rather communicate via text, some via email, and some via phone. I'd like to raise the level of intimacy, but some people are trying to avoid intimacy. Same thing. So nothing wrong with emailing somebody that you know in fact, I think it's a best practice when you ever, you call an attorney and leave a message to always send an email about what you're calling about. I think that in my mind there are some very busy attorneys, but I think even the average attorney thinks they're busier than they are. And so if you treat them like their time is so valuable, I think they appreciate that. So I, whenever, as a general rule, I call, For sure an attorney, but even leads of any sort. Generally I'll, I'll, you know, send an email. Hey, I just left you a message. You know, here's what it's about. In my, in my crm I have kind a summary what the call is about. Anyhow, you know, referred to you about the Jones matter. So if there's the top, I've just cut and paste the topic in the subject line and, and then type a short note from there. So that's, that's how I approach it. I wouldn't cold email an attorney, just now I saw somebody just, and I say that I saw an attorney on a couple sheriff's sales, and I did call and leave him a message today. That's a cold call. And then I sent him an email summarizing why I called you, but it's not really cold. I'm talking about a sheriff's sale. Mm-hmm., I think I needed to qualify that question. I, I think I meant it more for the applicants prs. Executors. I, I, I, I don't think emailing a, an attorney Cole. Is probably the better way to, to reach 'em. Chad likes to drop in on 'em. I'm kind of more of a drop in guy, but I, I know some people would've a problem with doing that and maybe some attorneys would as well. In fact, maybe even the, the attorney wouldn't carry which way you'd approached him if you approached him at all. Some of 'em just don't want to talk to you, period. Right. So who knows? Maybe that's it. But maybe for an email from a, from a pr standpoint. As a way to keep 'em What's your, what's your thoughts about emailing personal representatives? I think same thing. You know, when I get, you know, referred to personal representative if, if I, if I'm getting an email, I'll forward the introductory email. If I'm getting a phone call from the attorney, I'll call the PR and then I'll send an email. Your attorney, so-and-so referred me to you or your friend, so-and-so referred me to. And so I'll reach out and contact people multiple ways, try to reach them if I can. Okay. So, you know, with all the leads they do Most of the time provide an email. Mm-hmm., I've never bothered using it, but I didn't know if that might be another way to have another point of contact. Another touchpoint. To compliment the letters and the phone calls and stuff like that. So, so now you're, now you're emailing cold. And I think I wouldn't do that if I was referred by somebody. I would, but if I, if you recall cold cold calling on the phone to some degree, you're allowed to call because you're not really selling anything. You're, you're presenting a service or a fee or option for them. Mm-hmm.. But the emails technically have their permission, so I would, I wouldn't email personally, but other people. Okay, good deal. Yeah, and, and again, I know there are people who say, well, yeah, but the more you email, the more they see your name and such. Yeah, maybe, but also people get freaked out by email enough for enough. You'll start getting the senior email, go to spam when now your emails that, that's one of the problems I have is they did much marketing earlier in my career. To get your, your email back on good graces is hard. And so I email attorneys all the time and it goes to spam. I had a, a guest on my show last Thursday, and I sent multiple emails. They're all going to spam. So you had, be careful about sending out emails that are unsolicited. Of course, you can use a different domain name just for those emails. That's another option. Okay. I, I would just, I don't do. Okay. Good deal. All right. Thank you, bill. And, and the last thing I do will say though, is if you put people in, they do send an emails come out, your social media kind of picks up, you know, when you send an email I don't know how it all works. There's something to do with a Google tracking that Google Mail will send them, you know, some sort of a advertisement. And then next thing you know, they're seeing you on friend requests and Facebook and YouTube and such. So there is something about, there's something you said for emailing people, but again, I would just be careful how you do. Okay. Very good. Thank you sir. Thank you. Okay. I think unless somebody has a burning question, I think that's gonna wrap up for the day. Any other last minute questions other than my, my still have a question? I still get Dave Young Atlanta, wearing a Dodgers Cap still just blows my mind. I, I, I don't care how good looking the cap is, I would never wear a Braves cap! I don't really understand how that works. Okay. Well that's just me. Hey this is our last call of the year. So I just wanna thank everybody for participating and for supporting me personally. I've been, you know, you may or may not know that I do this really just as a way to help out Chad and the program. Chad had some personal challenges that made it difficult for me to have it. I said, well, let me step in and see if I can't help and, and keep it going. And it's really been a great pleasure for me to meet you guys and support you and have you encourage me and support my business. And, you know, end the year just, I'm so filled with gratitude I have a of escrows. I have a pipeline of listings. I have a great business that I've been built over the past three, four years, and this call has been a big part of it. So thank you for all those who participate in this call and the probate mastery community overall. My name is Bill Gross. I also host probate weekly.com on Thursdays. Feel free to see me there, or my Facebook group is probate experts. Feel free to join there. This call is the Probate Mastery Alumni call. Free to check out the Estate Professional Mastermind on Facebook. Also, check out probate mastery.com if you're not yet, become a certified probate expert or the EARN program or other programs that Chad offers as well as if you wanna set up for this program regularly or see past episodes or questions. So thank you all for your support. I really appreciate you guys so much. All those who voted for you, by the way? The Go Celtics Sheriff, Patrick, I don't know about that. Go Celtics. I don't think you could. I think that's banned speech on on Zoom, if I remember right. And I got a Thanks Bill. And, and Kat and I, it reminds me that we had the election last week and I won, uh, the um, You know, team Bill versus Team Katt I forget the exact numbers, but I know it was overwhelming. So thank you all. Have a great New Year's, everybody. We'll see you guys all next week, or we'll see you in the Facebook group. Thanks everybody. Bye-bye. Thank you, bill. Bye-bye.