Probate Direct Mail ROI, B2B real estate referrals, and creative seller financing in 2023

In this episode, certified probate experts discuss probate direct mail ROI, winning attorney referrals, and how selling real estate on terms can help backstop a declining housing market.  Brian, Stephen, Jessica, and David all share compelling stories of the work they’re doing in probate. Elvis and Anthony are laying the foundation for a successful marketing strategy. And, Chad announces the winner of our EARN course contest. Tune in and see the progress these probate agents and investors have made in the last week!

Full show notes: https://probatemastery.com/probate-direct-mail-roi-real-estate

YouTube:  https://youtu.be/822vnYow3oM

Episode Timestamps:
0:00 Announcements

5:47 Attorney prospecting script to win real estate referrals (Probate Scripts) (Success Story)

13:52 Cold called an attorney in my probate lead list (Cold Calling Probates) (Success Story)

21:32 Pro Se Representation in Texas probate court (Probate in Texas)

24:05 Social workers and probate real estate services (Fundraising Ideas)

28:50 How to get probate leads in your county (All The Leads Reviews)

32:13 Meeting attorneys at Probate Court (Probate Coaching)

39:47 Creative Financing and Senior Care Affordability (SRES Tips)

49:46 DIY real estate mail-outs (Real Estate Marketing)

51:53 Should you cold call surviving spouses? (Probate Prospecting)

56:47 How EstateExec can complement an estate attorney’s business (Estate Attorneys) (EARN FAQs)

59:32 Greeting card envelopes vs. postcards for probate mailers: 10x return on mail (Probate Marketing)

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The Ultimate Script Framework (FREE): Here's the mind-map we use to navigate ANY real estate conversation (cold calling and in-person): https://courses.magnumopusproject.com/get-your-free-mind-map-YTO Get it free

Learn more at www.probatemastery.com

Transcript

0:19

Welcome everybody to our weekly Probate Mastery Group coaching call, the Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast, wherever you might be listening to this or viewing us., I wanna start this week and I think I just saw Sal come in. So a couple weeks ago I issued a challenge to try to get everybody in gear who purchased the EARN course to finish. And, we had quite a few people get through that in the last couple weeks and complete the course. Sal Jimenez was actually drawn as our winner. So, Sal, if you didn't see the video before I jumped on the other call, you and I got some coaching calls to schedule Bud. I appreciate you getting in the course and actually going a hundred percent through it. And, I'll make myself available to you over the next couple of weeks, so we'll get your free coaching call scheduled. And other than that, let's hear from you guys. So what happened this week? Who's got a win, who hit a wall? Before we jump into that, there is one other thing... you guys should have received an email to update your contact information and then also suggest what we can produce for future courses for you. So we're having a strategy meeting- our team is -next month and we would love your insights so we can produce what you guys wanna learn. Yeah, thank you, McKenna. I knew there was something important. So one of the most challenging things for me is, that I can't actually have one-on-one contact with everybody. I would love to know exactly what you guys could most benefit from. You know, the EARN course I realized that prospecting is a struggle and a lot of people fail because they just wash out before they get to the right deal flow. They give up. And with EARN if you approach that the right way, the cash conversion cycle is much shorter. The work is a lot easier and it's just more sustainable. But I've done everything in real estate. I mean, I, I started up, sold everything from an RV lot to a five and a half million dollar beachfront condo to multimillion dollar commercial asset. That's, um, I have a 95% closing ratio on lease options. I've done, uh, wrap sub twos, all kinds of creative financing flips, JV flips, where you get a free house. So I can teach so many different things. And in this changing environment, like as the market's shifting, I'm, it's incredibly bearish from a macro standpoint. I think that, you know, I don't think I know real estate's a lagging indicator. What we see now is just what, it's a result of what happened three to six months ago and, and other macro parts of the, the macro market. So we can teach creative financing courses, we can teach foreclosure avoidance. I can dust off all with short sale systems. Like there's so many things that I feel like I can contribute to the community that may or may not be related to probate or trust administration. So just take an opportunity before we get together in Florida. We're really gonna look at what we can do in 2023 to make the biggest impact. So McKenna just dropped the link and we'll put that in the show notes too. Um, Just take a few minutes and let us know what, what you think, like where you are in your business, what you really could benefit from the most. We give you some ideas of some of the courses we have on deck but aren't produced yet. So please take a moment to do that. Larry says, Creative finances near the top. I think that's, uh, everybody wants to learn. Wait, wait till you hear my soapbox ran about the biggest sub2 set up in history. That's something like, I can teach you to backstop market values and actually create affordable housing in the community by focusing on senior citizen affordable housing and lower income, affordable housing with homes that were carrying two to 4% interest rates. People got emotional and bought a payment instead of a price. Now they can't sell. So, things like that, I can teach it to actually put high comps on the books in a declining market to help the community, help the, the property values stabilize and create affordable housing. And usually about a two, two x or better debt service coverage ratio. So you have a, a, a finance contingency, any bank where we refinance that deal. So lots of things we could teach. We have fun financial independence courses and things like that, but one of the other things we're working on is actually taking a lot of the, the content from these calls. Where it's, we, we, you know, oftentimes, I mean you've heard me for down near a decade now, talk about a lot of these topics and sometimes it's hard to find that. And we try to make our, all this content available and as searchable as possible. Um, what we're doing now is actually breaking that down into OnDemand coaching and I'm kinda letting a cat out of the bag. But any ideas you have around that too, like imagine if we say or someone says, Hey, how do you approach an attorney? And, you know, with a combination of things, we go to me coaching on a hundred different calls, we go to Brian Wilson's success video where he talks about how exactly how he did it in four days, getting, you know, multiple deals, um, but in a course format where you can always go to one place and find that. So we're really focused on, in 2023, like really focused on improving what we do to, to get a better result for you guys, cuz winter's coming literally and figuratively. Um, we're going into a major transition in the real estate market, and I don't wanna see a damn one of you not not be here next year. So please tell us what we can build for you and, and what we can do to make it better. And that's what we're gonna do in 23. Everybody wants creative financing so that that's, that's a front runner for sure. All right. Who, uh, who has questions or comments or success stories? How can we help you guys? Two more attorneys this week? Chad. Nice. How did they, they came to you or you outbound? Outbound. Outbound through referrals in the market. And I'm just using that same. Question, uh, to almost everybody I meet, which is, uh, who is your trust attorney? If they say, Well, I don't have one, then I say, Well, I've got somebody you need to talk to. And if they say, Hey, I've got Bob Smith over in Alexandria, I say, Great, do you like him? Yes. Okay, great. You know, is it somebody you think I should be talking to about our services? Oh, really? Yeah. Okay, great. Can you put me in touch with them. Fantastic. Great. And then, uh, once they, once they do either a short little text and put us on a text chain, I just say, Hey Bob, you know, great to meet you. I'd love to come over and just make a personal introduction and off and running. Best question ever. You guys, if you didn't write that script down, you need to write it down. Like in your sphere of influence and your day to day, who, who is, uh, who's your trust attorney? If they don't have one, guess what they are the referral. If they do have one, they're gonna give you the referral. So it's, it's a perfect question. Like, it, it, you win a hundred percent of the time, right? Like, you either, you either get, get a referral to a, a trust attorney that, that somebody in your network already trusts.. Or you reveal that they don't have a trust attorney, so they become a referral for one, a trust attorney you already have a relationship with. It's brilliantly simple and extremely effective. That's awesome. Brian. So have you met with'em in person, or just phone calls so far? Um, everybody I met with in person, I have, uh, one that I met with yesterday and I have one that I'm meeting with on Thursday. That's great. And how many transactions, like what do you have in the pipeline now from, you've been on it for a couple weeks. I mean, how many deals in the pipeline? I have, I've already met with, it'll be 12 attorneys this week, so it'll be 12 here in the greater DC area. And, I have three deals out of it already, but everybody is interested in EstateExec. So when, when I go to talk to them, and I think I shared this with you when I go to talk to them, um, my background being in technology, I just say, you know, Hey, I'm, you know, Brian Wilson, you know, Great, great to meet you, blah. Glad you know. Ha tell me about your business. You know, tell me the one thing, if I could take off your plate over to be, Yeah. And, you know, it just kind of starts the conversation. I say, well, you know, having a background in technology, uh, we have a partnership with EstateExec, and, it just goes from there. They, most of them are like, Oh, I've, I've, I've heard something, you know, software coming in or technology coming in, you know, we're just not really, you know, focused on that. And I said, Don't worry, you don't have to be. That's, that's where I can help you and help you with your administrative drag. They just, it, They've never heard anything like that before. I know. It's, And so when you start to say it, not that, not that their eyes glaze over, but you walk in and it's an interesting dynamic. I would just say this, it's an interesting dynamic because you're walking into their territory where they are the experts. And I know originally, you know, I kind of felt, you know, a little sheepish. Like, you know who, who am I? You're the, you're the big attorney. I'm the, I'm the little real estate guy. Now, when you start to say, Hey, I'm partnering with this, you know, with the technology firm, all of a sudden they are not the expert anymore. And the minute that they are not the expert, it's like a, I can't remember what, You had some story, uh, a couple weeks ago, Chad, where, you know, there was this big guy who came up to you, he was gonna pop you for something and you turned him around very quickly. That's exactly what happens with these attorneys. The minute that you begin to talk, talk anything outside of their sphere of expertise, you can see them start to kind of, kind of sit back a little bit, and then that's where you step in. And the area of expertise that we have is different than the area of expertise that they have. And once you realize that you're on the same level with somebody that's an expert in their field, you're an expert in your field, it just makes the conversation go much easier. And they almost automatically believe that you are a trusted advisor in what you do. And it makes it easy for them to then begin to refer business to you. And then I just, I just keep them on a little, Hey, just, just calling to check in, see how things are going, um, this, that, and the other. And so that, that's kind of how I've been doing this. That's awesome, man. Thank you for always being willing to come back and share what's working and, and really be a great example of, of how simple this can be and how effective it can be. Um, Sal, you might want to get on Brian's calendar instead of my . Like he, he's the one that he, he's lighten up Northern Virginia, man. Um, Larry had, or excuse me, uh, Alan had asked, what product is Brian talking about? So what we were talking. Alan is the estate exec software. It's an estate management software that we actually offer to you from within the earn course. So we actually send them a letter to the consumer, offering them a free tool, um, which is a multimillion dollar piece of software that it's a $200 public license, but we actually have a deal where you can get that license for $85 by it on their behalf if they're a serious prospect or already a client. And then the whole point of that is to take, instead of taking a stack of papers in a confused individual to the, with the attorney, they're actually going in with everything electronically filed and organized and this, and knowing the attorney knows that they're your client, they come in as the best, you know, the best prepared first, first meeting client they've ever had. So it's a, it's a consumer value tool, but it's, it seems to be even more valuable on, on the attorney and the one that's receiving that, that client referral. Um, it's also something that even if they already have an attorney, if they've already engaged, if their attorney refers them to you, you can get them off paper. Um, you know, if somebody may state, it usually is like literally stacks of paper and folders in the front, in the car seat and the clerk will for something and they're like, I don't know. It was here a couple days ago. I remember seeing it. And there's all this stuff. So it adds value all the way around. It's more valuable to us, to the attorneys, to the consumers. Um, so it's called a state exec and that's available within the earn course. You can, you can si uh, sign up for a 10 day trial and try it out. Take it for a test drive. And Chad, just to, just one other thing about that test drive. Um, you can sign up the attorney for a test drive. Yeah. And that's when you tell them, Hey, I, I, I'll, I'll give you a free 14, 10, 14. Well, I forget what it is. I'll give you a free trial to the software and you, and when you walk outta there, you just go back and you sign them up, you send them the link, and then that gives you the immediate opportunity to then follow up in a week or two and say, Hey, you know, just wanted to touch base with you. What'd you. And I think all of them expect, Oh, this is gonna be some half-ass tool, some checklist. But then they get in there and realize it's state specific that an actual attorney in Maryland or Virginia or DC has actually put step by step, the DC process, the Maryland process, the Virginia process. So it shows really well, like a lot of effort and has gone into that piece of technology. So I think the expectation is pretty low, but then they get in there and they're like, Oh my God, an attorney must have built this. Um, it's because an attorney didn't write the code, but he'd done the software, right? Well, awesome. Brian, thank you so much for sharing, um, always being here to to, to stand as a great example for these guys. Larry, you've had your hand up for a while patiently, how can we help you? yeah. Hey, uh, Chad. So, I had, an interesting call just about an hour ago. I was calling personal representatives. And I inadvertently called an attorney. And okay, uh, it was kind of funny because he said, Yeah, I got your letter.... what is it you do again? And so I kind of gave him a rough description of how we can help as a solutions expert in probate. And he said, Well, this is really interesting because, it's weird for me because, I'm right now, a... I'm a personal representative and I'm typically on the other side of this, representing the other parties, but that's actually my dad that you're talking about. He said, I never heard of what you do. And I said, Great. Well, I'm glad that we got the chance to talk. And, he said, Well, I got your letter. He goes, I gotta run off to an appointment, but I'd like to follow back up with you and talk to you more about what you do. And I just asked him, I said, Just by chance, do you work in the state administration in probate? He said, Absolutely. And I said, Awesome. Then it's gonna be great to get a chance to visit with you. I'd like to go, come down and have coffee and see if there's ways that I can work with you. And it was, uh, very receptive. So, um, that was my first like talking to an attorney I've never talked to before. Now I've got yet another one that called me back. We jump into that. I wanna, I wanna make that a teachable moment. That's an amazing story and I want you guys to focus on it. A couple things here. One that, that fear that that is common in so many people getting started in this. If they're gonna call me ans chaser, my reputation's gonna be garbage. Think of this. He cold called unknowingly cold, called an a probate attorney who is standing in as the executor of his father's estate. Now what does that show you? His dad was so damn hardheaded that he wouldn't let his son put a living trust in place for him. So we point to these things and earn, like even the attorneys can't get their families to do what they need to do. I've, my family's going through it. My family's going through probate. I've been talking about this stuff for 10 years. I brought the plan. I told 'em how to do it though. There's so many things in that short story that I, that I wanna point to. One, quit being afraid of being called an ambulance chaser. If you follow what we teach here, if you follow the culture of this community, you're not perceived as an ambulance chaser. You're perceived as a pro professional and a fiduciary. And this is, I mean, what better proof could you ever have cold calling an attorney who's emotionally raw? Cuz he lost his father and he knows that he could have protected his father's estate from probate. And he actually said, Wow, what an amazing thing. Can I follow up with you? Like, if that's not a testament to what we do here, what, what could be? So anyway, that that's amazing. Larry. I, I really thought you might be going somewhere else with the story. Like, I'm always happy to hear like, when they don't go that direction, I don't hear many of, I call it the lightning strike when people get accused of being, you know, charlatans and or ambulance chasers. Yeah, I got one of those too today. But it comes with the territory and it happens. And like you said, you know, had he stayed on long enough to hear my response, I would've just said, Obviously you didn't read my letter, or I wouldn't be getting flamed out like that. But I go, No big deal. I can't help 'em all. It, it, it's okay. Yep. Um, he's still got the letter so I can still help him. I still would help him if, if he has a change of heart, but he's pretty raw right now and I get it. So just gotta let it roll. Can't take it personally. Have you, the one that jumped on you, have you had an opportunity to, have you sent them the letter to offer a state exec? Uh, the, the attorney that you're talking about? No, no, no. The, the PR that jumped on you and called you an ambulance, chased her. Have, has he gotten the, the state, the state exec offer letter from you? Uh, no. I just sent the general first, uh, mailing form. Here's what I'd recommend. Go to earn, pull that, pull that letter that's from the estate exec funnel and change the opening paragraph and said, you know, You and I spoke the other day. It, it ended, ended abruptly. And I didn't get a chance to tell you why I was actually, what I can actually do to help you. Um, the one thing I know I can do for every family, whether they're pissed off at me or not, is offer access to a piece of software that can help, you know, help through, through your situation. You don't ever have to call me ever again, but here's a 10 day free trial. See if this works out and makes things easier for you. And it's just put it out in Olive Branch. It's a, it's a goodwill gesture that's likely to change his mind because you were just talking to the ego. He's hurt and he's pissed off cuz people are, people are, you know, your, your competition has muddied the water and pissed him off. He was just projecting that onto you. So differentiate yourself by sending him a, you know, offer to give him a 10 day free trial into some software that can make things a lot easier for him. Well, when I get the, I find humor on almost everything. And where I found it funny was that he goes, I got your letter. And I blocked your phone number, but yet he still answered to tell me he blocked my number. So I kinda laugh. I didn't want to say what I thought, but I kind of thought it was kind of funny in a way, not to make light of it, but you know. Well, if you're that humorous, if you're that humorous, send a merla duct tape and say, Here, block the mailbox so I can't see anything else. But here's a free, free trial, free trial of some software here that it costs millions of dollars for your benefit. Uh, I may never hear from you again, so go ahead and block the mailbox. The other one I had, I had another attorney that, I'd followed up with. I had tried to give them a referral. It's still not come through, but I got traction just from offering the referral. So we were talking and I mentioned that I'd like to get her opinion of the Estate exec software, and I just gave 'em a brief description. I go, it's basically quick and for probate. and estate, helping people close outta the states and, you know, collects the records, keeps up with the accounting, and it's, uh, you know, you can share it with anybody involved, even the attorneys. And, she was blown away. She goes, I have to see this. So I just said, Great. Let's find some time next week. We'll come by and take a look at it. But it's a busy office. I mean, you, you talk about like 2, 3, 4 of these relationships can change everything. This would be one that would, uh, be a great start and it would be easier going forward, I just got off a call, uh, like the reason I was late. We were having this same conversation. I mean, one of the first guys I ever coached, Don out of San Diego, had done a hundred transactions at a median of around 800,000 bucks. Over a 10 year period, but he had done like 80 million in sales from one single attorney relationship, and he just met him at a dinner party. He didn't do anything deliberately, like, nothing like the value we're talking about here. So if, I mean, like, you wait, you wait three years and see the videos that Brian Wilson is gonna make mm-hmm., he'll be stacking cash. His biggest problem is he won't be able to find enough syndication sponsors to invest in passive income investments because he'll, he'll, he'll be too busy trying to figure out how the hell to sell the business he built. Wow. Like this, this can snowball so quickly when you're, when you're like these stories, like they're being told by the attorneys too, when they're having a scotch at, at, at the club, they're saying, You know what? This damn real estate guy could been my office last week. You should see what he's doing and that's gonna spread throughout your community. So just keep, keep, keep doing this and guys, we can all retire from a half a dozen of these, these relationships. I got one last question then I'll, I'll get off. Cause I know you got a lot of people, but, have you ever heard of, in Texas where I'm from, you, can't be pro se. This other call that I made today, the applicant or the executor is in Colorado and in the record I'm looking at, he opened up the probate here as pro se. He's a Colorado resident. Can he do that? In another jurisdiction? Oh, I've, I've read about the pro se pro per debate in Texas. It's not settled. It's not so black and white. It's still a gray area. Like there's still an argument at the state level that the personal representative is not representing the estate, they're representing themself as, as being put in that position. So it's a, I don't think that it's clearly settled. I think it's still a gray area. So potentially that's what it is... and potentially that being an out of state resident, maybe it's, there's, the law applies differently because he's not a Texas resident, so he's not subject to the Texas law. He does have the right as a Colorado resident to be pro se in the state of Texas. That's a great question to ask an attorney when the next time you're talking, cuz it's gonna show that you're active and you're uncovering uncommon things. And you can also show that you're trying to turn that, that Colorado guy into a referral, cuz he probably shouldn't be doing that on his own in a different state. I'm gonna turn that into a referral, but, uh, that would be a great lead in. In fact, I may do it today. He asked me to call back in a couple hours. So we're gonna visit, see where that goes. But I'll keep you updated how that goes. Cause I, I didn't really know that could be done and maybe it can't be, but, but then again, I don't know. So I'll make mention of it next time. I know. There's law journals for, there's lots of published aspects of that argument. The pro se pro per argument in Texas. It's pretty interesting to read. I mean, there, like you would expect Texas is, you know, all about independence and personal freedoms. You would expect that more people would be on the side of the consumer saying, No, this is Texas. You can do whatever the hell you want, boy. but it's, it's been going on for a while. Like it's a pretty heated debate among law scholars, at least this, the journals that I've read, I'm always reminded who writes the laws. Yeah, lawyers do. Isn't it a coincidence that they actually write 'em in their favor, you know? So I I'm not expecting that. Thank goodness politicians can't do that.[Laughs] Funny! Thanks buddy. Well, Larry, thanks so much for sharing the awesome stories. Jessica, you've been patient. How can we help you? Just two quick questions. I had a realtor reach out to me asking about my system and what we're doing in probate. And we actually, we started a nonprofit as during Covid we were getting tons of estates as we're cleaning out and there's nowhere to donate the furniture. And I'm a survivor of domestic violence and work with a lot of those families. And so we started connecting families that have left the situations and are starting over with the furniture and leftovers from the estates so they could start. but I had some That's amazing. Thank you. Really? Like Bravo. Like that's so freaking cool that you've done that. Thank you. I, I, I did it like, I kept Habitat for Humanity, Salvation Army, Uh, I mean, the Good Will I kept their damn trucks running like . Yeah. That's, that's amazing. Yeah. We have, And then Covid hit and so it really brought up an opportunity that was kind of unique because of what was going on, but it, it's been really awesome. so I wanna, before you go on it, it's a bit of a rabbit hole, but I, I can't help myself. Do you know what happens? What market are you in? I'm in Southern California. Perfect. Do you know what happens to Amazon returns in Southern California? No. They go to a warehouse and they go to the dump.-What?- Unless a non-profit steps in, in which case, Amazon will give you the return inventory. You can then turn around and sell that inventory or take donations for that inventory. It's a mixed bag, so you have to have distribution channels for all sorts of different things. Okay. But if you're reaching out to the low income community, and you have a nonprofit status, all you gotta get is a warehouse space. And you can actually, you can't profit from it, but you can use it as a. So you can make sure that it covers your warehouse, cost it care, it covers your warehouse staff cost. You can create probably six to eight new jobs and lease up a five to 8,000 square foot square foot space, um, for, you're in the name of your non-profit and you can scale. So if, if you're interested in growing that I can connect you with, uh, uh, So I, one of the guys, I run an investment club for friends and family and. Future brother-in-law has done this. He took a 10,000 square foot floral wholesaling warehouse that they had moved to a much, they built a much bigger space and had 10,000 square feet just sitting unused. Um, so he actually did this, and it's working. He's, he's in the Toronto market, so he's got the, the, you know, he, he's running trucks to Toronto, bringing it back to the warehouse. He supplies basically every nonprofit in the Niagara, uh, region is all getting the Amazon returns just because of what Garrett has done. So it's, holy god. It's something like, I, I haven't talked much about, I, I'm talked at all about it publicly, but if you, if your heart's in that place and you've already got distribution channels into the community, You I'll, I'll get Gared in touch with you and you can learn how to do this in Southern California. That would be amazing. Cause I'm actually, so I'm in the Inland Empire. I'm in like Riverside. I live in Corona, Norco area. And we're, I think 15 minutes from some of the warehouses for Amazon, some of the biggest ones in the state. Perfect. but yeah, we're doing probate in primarily Los Angeles County right now. and we've really found our niche helping prs that are out of state that.. A lot of 'em are pro per. but when they clear out the estate, we help 'em with the estate sale and get everything that they can. But then there's always this leftover that they don't know what to do with. But helping families with like the furniture. I mean, when we moved into our apartment, I have two kids and we had nothing. I mean, I, I literally left in a super fast hurry... it was like a saving Grace Day and I just had a chance to get the hell out of town and we got in the car and drove 21 hours till I got to my grandma's house. And, my family and my friends help me with donations. And my aunt, who's a realtor, I'm a third generation, she's in Big Bear, which is a resort community, and she called and said, Okay, we've got bunk beds, we've got dishes we've got, and I mean, that's how I started over... and so it, it's obviously near and dear to my heart, but that would be amazing to be able to give them something else than just the hand me down, Especially the kids. Like, it's so hard leaving that situation. So that would be amazing if you could put me in touch with them. Yeah. email me, it's Chad@magnumopusproject.com. Okay. And, uh, I'll, I'll set you up with Gary. He can, he can he'll coach you through it. He's an extremely generous human. Awesome. Um, don't tell him I said that. I won't. That's amazing though. Thank you. Uh, I totally forgot what my question was. Hang on, let me look at my notes.. Oh, okay. So in Georgia, this gal that I'm just helping her, she's been in real estate for a while, but she's really found probate. She wants to make it her niche. and she saw what I had done with seasons and stages and wants to kind of replicate that in Georgia. Do you know offhand, in Georgia, Can they access cases online or? She's getting all the leads right now, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say this on that call. this call. Sorry. But she gets no information on the attorneys and she gets very little information. Uh, she gets basically the PR name, the decedent's name, and a couple phone numbers. And I was trying to show her how I look up and bring value to the, the clients saying, you know, this is what's missing. Still. This is what we need to do. But I don't know if she has that same access. So I would say, and I mean it, it's fine, like I know the data processes, so if you have incomplete data coming from all the leads, it probably means it was pulled online. Because when you go into the courthouse, you get all of the information, it's all there on the petition. So if she's finding incomplete data, she can probably find that incomplete data online. That's why it's incomplete. But if she goes to the courthouse, she can probably get the complete data. It's county by county, like nationwide, there are about 15% of counties that are online. It's growing slowly, but the majority of them are in person. So if it's something that, Is she, you're coaching her at mentoring or what's your role? Uh, no, we just started chatting. She asked some questions. She asked if I did coaching and I was no... but no, I just wanted to get her started in the right direction as far as like how, what my process is. And that's what I do. I'm in three counties that have it. So, . Yep. And the other thing you can do is nudge her toward working with attorneys like I said earlier. The path of resistance is much, much lighter. The cash conversion cycle is much shorter. Brian is a great example of what can be accomplished in just a couple of weeks. He can have a pipeline of, you know, like millions of dollars in transaction volume in just a few weeks. And it look like he's having fun, kind of proud of himself. Like I impressed that dude. So I would, I would nudge her in that direction. It's just if she's already got the data. Cause she can keep marketing to the families, but tell her to put some attention on building a referral network, building those attorneys. Okay, so that was the other side of my question, or the other question I had was, I guess for you and Brian, so I do plan to purchase the EARN course. I'm waiting for a couple closings and then I will, but in the meantime, how are you initiating those conversations? Are you walking into attorneys? Are you cold calling or how are you getting those conversations started so you can show them EstateExec?? Yep. Um, what I would say in lieu of having the course, just go to our YouTube channel. It's Chad Corbett Probate Training, and go to in the channel, use the search bar, the search icon on the top right, and just type in attorney. And you will find hours upon hours, upon hours of conversations. And Katt does an incredibly good job of segmenting each call into small segments where they'll act, You can search based on content. There's roleplays, there's, you know, the, the how to is is there. So go check that out first. Awesome. Thank you guys. Yeah. And, uh, send me that email. I'll connect you up with Gary. You got a lot of love in the chat here too. People are pretty impressed with who you are. Thanks. That's pretty awesome, Jessica. Thank you. Johnny, Utah, Stephen Hughes, you're up next. Yep, Yep. Here in Utah. I got a couple of things that I've been doing and then asking for I guess some advice on moving forward. So, last time I was on the call, I think I mentioned, I spoke to the Salt Lake County Probate Clark. She said, Hey, just come. The first time I went was two weeks ago. I just sat in the audience. It wasn't the right time to approach to talk to the judge and uh, it just kind of gave me a feel for the courtroom. Very interesting. Only 10 cases, three of them were the same attorney and they were like, Oh, Mr. Mayfield. So very interesting. Like they knew the guy. He was the only one that had like binders super organized. And then you had a couple people that really messed up, like one attorney, filed it informal, but then the judge is like, Well, if you're the attorney, probably should be formal, right? Especially if this is looking like it's going into mediation litigation. And then another one didn't have the death certificate. It's just very interesting. So I was like, Huh, I guess attorneys make really bad mistakes. But this last week I went again, but I went up and spoke to the bailiff. I said, Hey, the clerk says you let the judge know that I'm here to observe over the next few weeks. And um, you know, the judge basically was like, it's public courtroom. You could sit and watch whenever, actually, do you wanna sit up here at the front next to the bailiff so you can see the attorneys more closely? Uh, see the zoom screen and hear everything, Man, I'll tell you, I was sitting there and every time an attorney walked up, they gave me this look like, who the heck is this guy? So what I'm thinking is, Oh, I'm just gonna keep making notes of who these good attorneys are, or even the ones that are a little struggle bus and reach out to 'em within the next week and be like, Hey, I was sitting in probate court. I always sit and observe and I noticed you in court. I was hoping we could have lunch, blah, blah, blah, and go from. I guess my only concern could be if somehow it turned into some sort of complaint back to the court that I solicited them outside of the court, but at the same time, I don't really care, especially if I'm adding value. Dude, that's just limited beliefs. Like, quit that right now. Like, you're failing, you're failing before you start Yeah, but it, I, I thought it was so cool. He asked me to sit up there cuz it's like unknowingly, they put me in a position of authority immediately and I was telling my wife, I'm like, you know, I'm gonna be here every week and that judge is gonna talk to me more and more. He's gonna be like, Why the hell are you in my courtroom every week? Are you in law school? And then I'll, here's the reason why. Kudos to you, man. Like, another, another round of applause. Like I've challenged so many people to do what you're talking about. Bill Gross is a standing example because so few people have ever done that, But Bill did and he built, he, he literally changed his life, in, in the courtroom. And he, you know, it was just a simple challenge issue to him, but he was like, he saw so much value in it became an everyday thing, you know, he was there every, every session. So I would encourage you to continue doing it for a while. The other thing is, you know, the attorney who got embarrassed in court because he made, you know, just the simplest of mistakes showing up to probate court without a death certificate. I mean, come on man. Where, where'd you get that law degree? You can approach him, subtly, and say, you know, Hey, we, we met in the courtroom. I know there's a lot of people there and you were busy, but just wanted to see if I could take you to lunch. I've got some ideas that I wanted to share with you. And one of those ideas could be, Hey man, just to make sure, I think I got something that could eliminate what happened last Tuesday. It probably eliminate that from ever happening again. We actually provide a free software to every client that, that we work with called EstateExec. And you can think of it as like a QuickBooks for, uh, for estate management. So we can make sure that your clients get you what you need so you don't end up being embarrassed in the courtroom ever again. Not blaming him, I'm blaming the client. And his ego is gonna go, Yeah, it was the client I could use that I could get, they need to get in line. But you can do things like that. Find ways that you can help them not trip up again in the future and put that on the client. So you, it's tough, man. We're all, we're all in business. We try to do our best for these people, but you can lead the horse to the water, but you don't always get the death certificate... and just really casually introduce them to some, the first piece of value that you can do for them. But, becoming a familiar face in a probate court, especially in a culture like Utah. you know, the more transparent you are in Utah, the, the easier it is to build a trusted business, right? Yes. Like, it's, it's not one of those digital and, and anonimity kinda states, like, people expect you to, you know, look me in the eye and check my hand. At least that's been my experience and, and working with people from there. I don't know if you know Verl Workman like he's a really successful real estate coach from Utah and his old family just, they're amazing, but they're very direct and very transparent and, anyways, so I think it'll be respected if you show up in that courtroom as a regular, People are gonna, like you said, they're gonna start noticing you. They're gonna start asking questions about who you are. And just the same thing I told Bill, Man, regardless of where the conversation goes, the magic question in the back of your mind is, the what is one way I can help this person right now? And we've got an entire arsenal of options here. I mean, every day we add something more, right? So we're building courses for the consumer so we can give those to the attorneys. It's not ready yet. I wish it was. There's a lot of work to be done. But imagine if you walked into a courtroom and same, same scenario. He tripped up and you'd be like, Hey, I know you. It's hard to get clients to do their paperwork, isn't it? Like, I got something I wanna offer and just hand them a business card with a vanity URL that says you. Scale my law firm.com. Say just go there and sign up for this. It's actually gonna enroll you where you'll get at licensed courses for the state of Utah to educate your consumers. So they don't, they don't embarrass you in a courtroom next week. What do you mean? It's like, well, that conversation you have with every, every family that do that retains 15% of what you tell them. This is a course in layman's terms built, you know, that's endorsed by Utah attorneys. Just, they can educate themselves and get everything in order. So next time you'll have what you need on the date, the court date, and you can do things like that. Always be looking for what can I offer him right now that'll help him, you know, not experience what he just experienced, or how can I turn the, how can I bring a referral to. Something that, if you haven't done it already, to go through your sphere of influence to generate referrals. taking your referral to a courtroom, like, what you see in probate court. Not all sunshine rainbows, it's an administrative nightmare. People make mistakes. People get but outta shape. The judge gets bent outta shape and puts 'em back on, on the sidelines. But if you have a high net worth client that you're trying to encourage to get to have an estate plan, invite them to go to court with you next week. And while you're there, introduce them to Mr. Mayfield and say, This is Mr. Mayfield. He's here three, three days a week, you know, or he's representing at least three cases a week because so many people didn't do what was right. Mr. Mayfield, this is my client, Jeremy. Um, what would you say to him if he's got a net worth of 2 million and doesn't have a living trust and just refer him right on the damn spot and Mr. Mayfield's gonna, you know, chances are if he's that organized, he would rather do estate planning than he would administration and you're giving a referral in the courtroom after he saw what he could go through. So it's helping your client get connected with the reality of not having a proper estate plan, and it's giving you a face-to-face introduction, which will be one hell of a memorable moment in that. And for, and that attorney's mind, no one's ever done that. Mm-hmm. that's great. I mean, yeah, I've sent out a couple things to people my CRM soi, but I, I need to really push it. I just haven't. I think the, the second question I have, this is how I got into the probate stuff, is I had done a couple of senior citizen deals and I got my SREs cuz of it, cuz I started seeing this need in that demographic. So I started doing that at the beginning of this year and I tried working with senior placement companies, which I, I'm pretty opinionated against right now. Yeah. Um, just cannot and won't work with them anymore. Um, so I said, You know what? Forget it. I'm just gonna go talk to the sales reps and marketing directors at assisted living and everything else on my own. So Thursday afternoons I'm in the car driving around and I have done this for literally a month. I did my 30 people and now I'm gonna rope the tape back through 'em and meet'em once a month, plus I'm sending 'em a video a week. But what's interesting is, The number of them that have admitted yes, the market really is bad now and people are having trouble selling the house to move in here. What these sales reps are telling me is during Covid people couldn't move out. They were just locked down in there almost like prison. So if a room ever came up, it was cuz they died, but, and then they can move someone in easily, cuz you know, every house sold like hot cakes and it was, you know, bonanza. Well that's just totally the opposite here now. Utah is a very bad market compared to the rest of the country at the moment. And I'll argue that you, I'm blue in the face, so they are feeling a big need from me. To basically work with me to get the home listed, sold, et cetera. Um, part of part of me sharing this, I guess is confidence cuz I'm kind of alone doing this. There's no one I know in Utah doing this, you know, doing this probate stuff for senior stuff. Um, but in terms of adding value to these sales reps and marketers, what I told them was this. And, and I'm curious for your feedback, just like with the proba, I said, Look, I'm not a uh, placement agency. I'm a real estate professional. I said, we can do all kinds of things. We can help them clean out, we can help them rent the property if they wanted to, but it's probably in your best interest that they sell it. Um, you know, if they're skilled nursing, if one person's still living in the house and passes, they don't have a living trust. I said, if y'all had a probate come up, that always perks their ears up. But we basically go through this list with creative financing, investing, listing and such. And I said, Look, I do not expect a referral fee from you. I get paid on the home. This is about helping your resident. Because no one else is out there who is this skilled to help them. And this is also helping you in your job to get the room filled. And that's, to me, the referral is that we are mutually helping each other. That's how I view this, Chad. So I'm curious for your feedback and uh, thoughts on it. So these are private pay facilities, right? Yes. This is assisted living, uh, skilled nursing and independent living. But private pay, not Medicaid? Uh, yes. Uh, some of 'em, some of 'em that's okay. Just forget the Medicaid ones. Yeah. With this strategy. But they're all prime. So yeah, the market, the market is likely to stall. And what I mean, what you see is look at the leading indicators in mortgage applications. Look at the leading indicators and like the, the Fed is, you know, they're mandated to hold their line and try to control what's really like 18%, 18 and a 5% inflation. If you look at, if you include housing and energy, um, and food, which I think we all have houses and eat food. Drive cars, right? So real inflation, like at, at the family level is hitting it more like 18 plus percent. So it's, it's starting to show up. We're seeing, you know, real estate, it's a lagging indicator by at least a quarter, but we're starting to see it. So what's likely to happen, You've got the highest equity levels in recent history. You've got, sellers have this expectation in their mind that's what the asset's worth. So they're gonna clinging to pay equity until they can't. So they'll, if they do hit the market, they'll head at a high price, they'll do little price reductions. But where this will really, really become problematic is, and another like when we get after the retail season, comes in with low, low numbers, um, when you get year end audited financials from public companies and you actually see that earnings are declining, that even, even with we have declining gdp, we've got almost 60% less freight being shipped from Asia to North America. You've got retailers laying off people in mass. So the next thing, like the, the next domino that will start to, to really tighten in on real estate and, and close, bring you closer to a correction. Will be unemployment. And right now that's a lagging indicator just because of the demographics in our workforce. We've got three times as many baby boomers leaving the workforce as we do millennials and, and you know, the, uh, next generations coming into it. So it's, it's a really interesting dynamic in the labor force right now. But eventually, if there's no earnings in these companies, they have to cut costs to please shareholders and, and to keep share values up. I expect that to be probably first quarter, first quarter, second quarter of next year at that point. And the reason I'm saying all this, I think you have time to prepare. It's not terrible out there right now, but I think we're getting there., Um, by that time, what I would like you to be prepared to do is sell every damn house you can find in that situation on terms, So if they think it's worth a half a million dollars and the market is yielding a price of 400, how do we put that deal together? Like, you're not gonna, you're unlikely to change their mind because they don't have time to wait for that a hundred thousand dollars in equity to come back. They're 70 years old need they, they need to go to assisted living. Right? So how do you become the, the solution to bridge that gap and, and their perceived value and the market's perceived value? Easiest way to do it is through terms. So we take that house, we list it with owner financing, 0%, $500,000 on a 30 year amortization with a five year balloon, and your damn phone will explode. You won't sleep for the next 24 hours because your damn phone will be ringing all night long. And you've gotta field through some people, you've gotta have qualifying questions. But if you wanna bring buyers out of the woodwork, people who have gone through divorce, job loss don't have, or, or even people who are financially savvy and just don't want to pay fricking six and a 5% interest rates. You can get some real interest... you can create velocity in the market by selling on terms. I mean, you could, you could buy the house on.. Anyways, that's, that's what I would say can help you be the most valuable to any private pay cares facility, you find a way to unlock 2021 value in a 2023 real estate market, and you're, you're gonna be the most valuable real estate guy in town. The other thing you're gonna be doing is backstopping market values. You'll actually soften the real estate correction. Your market won't fall so hard because you're gonna be posting high comps on public record. Actually, I'm proposing you list them, so you'll post them on public record and MLS. So the appraisers will think you're a godsend. The other agents, the neighbors, like you're supporting the market. You're also supporting buyers who have been priced out of the market. You're giving them an opportunity to come back into the market and you're supporting the local, assisted living facilities. The other people that you should be contacting is, And I think it's, it's kind of common in your market as anyone with residential assisted living facilities. So, single family residence is being used for residential assisted living. They're small business owners. They're typically savvy investors and they're hungry, so they're gonna be experiencing the same pain. Now it's easier for them to lease rooms cuz they're an average of $3,700 a bed where institutional, like facilities, they're averaging probably eight to 10,000 a bed. But that's the other place you can use this tactic is as go to those. So your target could be probate, especially if they held title as tenants in the entirety with rights of survivorship, then you basically have a transfer on death. The title can just be an intrafamily transfer, family gift deed, and you can sell the house owner finance thing a week after dad dies, for mom to get her care taken care of. If it's, if it wasn't titled properly, then the house has to clear probate before you can do this. But also look at for rent by owner, for sale by owner, expired listings that are vacant. Like you can use this and you can go find the inventory to do this with. But any of those people are in an aging situation that, that have their price, their house listed over market value or over what the buyer perceived is market value. Sell it on terms and walk'em right back to the nursing home and refer them in person and say, you know, listen, we can do this. Like, I can unlock it. But you can probably get a steady round of inbound referrals after you do the first one. That person at the nursing home's gonna go, Holy hell, how did he do that? And they're, they're gonna see you, you know, you're gonna make, like, you're gonna make a lemonade. But they didn't know how. They're sitting there looking at the lemons, like a, Oh, what do we do? And you turn that into a head and a bed, which is revenue to them, and you're spreading out the, you know, the taxation. If it's more than 250 or half million, like more than the exemption, you're spreading out the capital gains tax for the homeowner. And chances are if they're already going into assisted living, they might not even live through that five year period. Or you might put a 10 year balloon on the note so the family will actually inherit the note and then they won't pay any tax cuz they'll benefit from the step up basis and there won't be any tax on the equity that was in that estate. So there's lots of ways you can do it, but I would recommend sell on terms terms you'll be very, very attractive to the people who are finding it challenging to liquidate assets to get people into assisted living. Okay, thank you. Keep turning over Stones, man. I love having you here. Like if you always have something new and, and it shows you're out there doing it. So keep, keep up the good work and thanks for all he contributing back to the community. Thanks Elvis. How can we help you today? How you doing Chad? Uh, two quick questions. Uh, last week you recommended maybe about 200 per month on the new leads for probate. And, um, my plan is originally was 12 months to send out letters, but, um mm-hmm. at 200 month three, I'm gonna be at six, potentially, you know, 600 letters. Right. So, do you recommend labels or, or handwritten, like, you know, um, envelopes? Don't fulfill your own mail. You'll lose money every time. I just wanna be clear, somebody else is doing this, right? Not you. No, no. I have my daughter helping me out.[laughs] Child labor! Okay, as long as you're not doing it. No, no, that's not, that's not dollar productive, yes. So handwritten, I tested, the first 12,000 pieces of the mail I ever sent, I tracked meticulously where I settled in and like what, what we taught at all the leads and, and what their mail system is set up around is what I found. So, an A8 or an alpha eight envelope, like a greeting card envelope and a pastel in ivory. Um, I like ivory light, blues, peach, like some pastel color. Don't use bright or bolded colors because it screws with the laser reading in the post office. Mm-hmm... but I typically just use it like an ivory greeting card envelope with blue handwritten font. I tested return address versus no return address. Return address on the front versus the back, versus not at all. I never could find an actual measurable difference with or without the return address. So I went without, because my whole, my whole thing was I want as much curiosity as possible. If a greeting card shows up in the mail, it's going to get opened. Right. And if it shows up and they don't know who it's from, it's gonna get opened even faster. It's ex, it's way less likely to be thrown away. So yes, handwritten font, in blue ink on a greeting card envelope. You know, it's tried and true. It's still working, shockingly, a decade later because not that many people are willing to do that type of mail. Yeah. Okay. And then, uh, that's good. Thank you. And the second question is, when we get the new leads, say I get the new leads and I scrub 'em and I put 'em into my dialer or start calling, what's the call sequence that you recommended on the course? Cause I don't recall and I was looking to my notes, so I think I saw, Yeah, Dave Pannell here. Dave has a really good way of doing it. I didn't ever split my list out. I just got on the phone and called everybody. I was like, Hell, it'll sharpen me, right? Dave has, you know, he's running seven figures at this and I don't even, Dave, you even work like, you might work two days a week nowadays, but, um, what he does, so he'll class them out where you have out of. Out of state executors as like top tier, like the call first priority, then he'll have the in town or in state, and then he'll have the surviving spouse or the matching decedent and PR last name and address. So that's the priority he prefers to go in. I like how he does that. It's, it's leaving the surviving spouses last so you're not getting them first. Because if a list comes out today or she falls probate and tomorrow everyone starts calling if it's a surviving spouse and she, you know, she hasn't. He's not progressing through the grieving process everyone else can have a surviving spouse, so closed up with their bullshit that you can't actually communicate with them with a valuable offer. So it's oftentimes better to let those sit for a while until people get, until everyone who's muddying the water gives up and then you can come back and actually help them. And I've got lots of stories, you know, from the mainly widows, like from from females where I, I absolutely encourage you.. Don't ever skip a surviving spouse, especially a widow, because like the, the, I only got cold chills, but the, the situations that I've helped women through and what I'm helping my mother through, the reason I grounded myself here in West Virginia, like don't ever shy away from the opportunity to help somebody. So I'm not saying don't call surviving spouses. What I'm saying is it's okay sometimes to leave them until later, and you can hear me talk about that, you can google probate surviving spouse and my name and you can hear my full rant on it. But, so don't set them aside and just don't prospect them. You can deprioritize them and give them more time to grieve and then call them, but that's the way Dave does it. I think as far as people actually classing them out, that's probably the best way I've seen to do it. Yeah, I can say something. Yeah. Typically you'd call them maybe like every day until they answer or every once a week until they answer. It all depends on your time and, and how aggressive you are to the prospector. What I would say, you can call once a week, don't leave a voicemail once a week, you'll just become a, a pain. But definitely, I mean, the, the reality man, just call until you've spoken to everybody. Um, you're gonna end up helping, statistically, probably less than 5% of them. Most people convert at 5% or less, but five percent's about all it takes to be a millionaire in your first year of doing this. So, just call until you've spoken to everybody. If you don't know their position and they're on next month's list, if you do know their position, then you've cut your marketing budget for next month or you got a deal and you got revenue for next month. So be as aggressive as you can, your time will support. Every other week is a, is a good rhythm. Or once a month. And just follow up the next 30 days. Like ideally if, if you do what Dave is doing, you know, call, call early, but then follow up each month for the first year or as long as probate averages in your market. Ok. Yeah. And those people are, those people are just staying. The CRM now. I mean, I've got hundreds of people I have not ever talked to, and then I'm starting to find trends on the type of people that actually wanna work with me. People work with people that you're look like and that you act like, I don't know how else to say that. We were, we looked at 127 people that we've helped in probate. It's weird, but the older white lady likes to work with me. I don't know what it is. And then Liz, she's getting a lot of the the Hispanic culture in Texas. Okay. I don't have hell else to say it. She gets a lot of those phone calls. So yeah, we break our list down, but it seems like the type of people that we work with are the people that are more like us personality-wise and gender, not gender. Cuz I work with a lot of older women. It's weird. But I don't eliminate anybody from my list. I call everybody and we got close to 1500 people I still haven't talked to, but they probably sold or they never sell. If they do, they definitely know who I am. Yeah. Thank you guys. Yeah. All right. We've got two more hands up. Anthony, how can I help you this week? I'm try be quick so Im still working through the course. But, so with the attorneys, do I pay for the earn course and then give them like a referral code to sign up and then as a olive branch kind of pay for it for them to get 'em to reach out? Is that how that works? No. You, you, you've already bought the urine course, Is that that right? Well, uh, it stated zec, I meant like, do I go, I go to an attorneys', do I, uh, offer them a free trial and then pay for it? As in, so there's, there's a backend, there's a back office version for attorneys. We're not, we haven't actually designed funnels for that yet. Like, we're not, Okay. What, what, what Brian and I are discussing is just simply signing them up for the consumer version free trial so they can see what it would like. They're empathetic to what the client goes through. All they do is talk about it every day. Right. So they're gonna quickly see the value, the consumer value in that software and be like, Oh my God. It's a no brainer. Yes. You give this to every client. Well, any referral that comes from me into your office will come. They'll come prepared. So that's the idea is just not to, to have them be the end user of it. Because what you'll find is, is attorneys are pretty, they, they've been, you know, they have business systems, even if they're antiquated and they're not that efficient. They're working and it's the, the early in the relationship is not a time that you try to change the stripes on a tager with a giant ego and a law degree, right? So let's not go in and try to change their business, like their systems. Let's go in and try to make their, make them more efficient and give them some scale. Then we'll move on to that next level and say, Hey, did you know that there's an state exec back office version? Like, let me set you up with that cuz you might be able to get off all this paper and scanning and PDFs and like, or, you know, filing cabinets and you guys could probably all work from home if you just did this. And then you introduce them to, to the next level. But don't try to go in suggesting large systemic changes to a small business that's already busy as hell and bursting at the seams. Show them the consumer value by giving them access to it. And then say, you know, we're, we're making, we're offering this to every family in the county. If you'd like to co-market, I'm happy to, you know, to include you in our marketing. Otherwise, when I send you a referral, you can expect them to be educated and organized at this level. All right. That's cool. Only other thing I got is like, anyone who asks a question, I sent you a friend request to ask them questions later since we heard overtime. That's all I got. Awesome. There we go. Community guys. All right, Jessica, Mine's super quick. I just keep forgetting to ask. Um, you talked about the greeting card envelope. What are you putting in there? Are you putting in a letter and you just fold it? I've gone to a four by four card with my logo on it. And then I have another card made that says no fees, no commissions if I'm trying to buy the house. Okay. So we're sending several different cards so that we have more than one opportunity at a phone call. So I'm sending my wife's card, I'm sending my card, totally different information. I'm sending a, a no fee, no commissions card to buy it for cash and then. Then there's another letter in there that is from my brokerage. So we're trying to hit it on several different whatever they're in the mood for and responding to. Uh, if you ever go to a mailbox on a foreclosure probate, they're gonna have 30, 40 letters on their desk or their table when you get there. We wanna have at least six in there that are from us, from different looking people. So over the timeframe of hitting them over eight months, they're gonna get six different to seven different letters from us. So outta that 33, we're gonna have at least one third of a chance of getting them to call us. And this works, but it takes a lot of effort. Every month we're switching up the type of letter we're sending. We're sending the same one we sent seven months ago, but not the same contact. So every contact is getting phone calls from us, letters from us, and then different styles of letters. So don't try to think that one letter's gonna get them to call you. It's just a different piece of mail. The different mood that they're in, the different need that they want, that you have to speak to it at the time that they are looking for that answer, that solution. So if you're not picking up the phones and calling these people every 21 days, if you're not sending them a letter every 30 days, reduce down the amount of mail that you wanna send and target the out staters and then grow it to the people that are in the same you know, same two hour radius of that property. And you could tell by zip code on those lists. And then in a year from now, from buying that one probate list or generating that list, you can send to the spouses. So it, it's a full time effort and you don't have to send a thousand mail pieces. We're sending up to 6,000 mail pieces a month now. And it honestly, it, you know, it's just the amount of phone calls you wanna take. So Jess, one of the things, as you struggle trying to not put too many ideas into a course, that it becomes confusing with one of the funnel, the funnel in the earn course about the no trespassing sign. The other approach that didn't make it into the course is you actually print the, get those signs printed locally with your name on the back, like your contact information and your list of services. And then you actually send it out as the first outbound mail piece. So, like David said, standing out in the mailbox, imagine getting eight and a half by 11 manila envelope. Wow. looks important. And then a letter inside saying, you know, here in in Southern California, we've got a liberal government. So if someone gains access to an estate property and there's no one there to object to that, you now have a landlord tenant situation on your hands, and it could be months before they get out. So we're sorry about what you're going through, but we make sure we reach out to every family and offer this complimentary, no trespassing sign. Please post it inside of the glass so it can't be stolen. And take a photo from a smartphone so you have a time and geo tag stamp on that for evidence in case that would ever come up. By the way, we provide a full service to help families in many, many different ways. In any situation, give us a call anytime. It's a soft touch outbound value, not even talking about real estate. If they. Then you're gonna talk to them, right? So there are things like that. It's more expensive, but it's less volume, it's higher impact. So you can, for two or three bucks, you can get custom printed, no trespassing signs for 15 cents instead of 8 cents. You can get a manila envelope. You can, for postage you're gonna pay more postage. So you might have, you know, six bucks in that mail piece. But you might only need one. It might cut your mail volume. Instead of 6,000 pieces a month, you might be on 600 pieces a month. Mm-hmm., because everyone opens your letter. So there's ideas like that. Like I didn't, I, I didn't, I wanted to choose one way to use the no trespassing signs. So we provided it and taught it the way that we did. But the no trespassing sign is one of those like, tangible things that really make a noticeable differentiation in the mailbox. And over time you'll find your mail cost will actually be less. On a per piece basis, it's gonna be higher, but so is your response rate. So your actual overall mail, mail budget will go down over time, I think. But we're, we're, we're actually seeing a seven times return on our mail. So if you're afraid to spend, say you just start with a hundred letters. it's seven times return on, on mail pieces. We've spent probably under 20 grand in mail this year and we've made close to 200. So that's 10 times return actually. So it's well worth it. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So back to your idea, Chad, real quick. I know you, I'll not take over, but it doesn't matter what you really send. You gotta send something. That's what I'm saying too. Yeah. You gotta send something. Chad, would you send that No trespassing sign at a state just to have something in there? I mean, I know it wouldn't make any sense. Yeah, it, it's an impact. You can change up the letter for the out-of-state ones. And put a no trespassing sign in the yellow envelope. Mm-hmm.. Okay. Just impact you can get them printed on, on. Like really thin vinyl so that they don't weigh very much. Or you can literally just go to Lowe's and buy those really super thin aluminum ones for like three or four bucks. Um, you can, you can send those too. So then it's got like that metallic feel and, and sound to it. Guys, listen, love y'all, but I gotta run. I've got people waiting on me elsewhere. So thanks so much for a great call. Lots of cool ideas and, and kind of novel discussions here. So I've never had so much fun on, on my own calls. Thanks to Bill Gross for having my back and leading these most of the time. It's actually been fun to step back in for a bit. If anyone's gonna be at NAR, uh, email support at Probate Mastery or Magnum opus project, let me know. I'll be in Orlando for NAR and I don't know if Josh fosters here. I'm gonna be at Exit Realty next week, The Exit Realty National Convention. So if any of you guys are exit realty and you wanna have a drink, I'll be in Amelia Island. If anyone's going to Orlando for NAR, let's meet up. We'll, we'll have a, we'll do some coaching, but thank you guys so much for being part of the community. We'll see you next week.