Probate marketing, leaving voicemails, and community banks for probate investing

Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/3sx7omMpuTU
Full Show Notes: https://probatemastery.com/probate-real-estate-marketing-cold-calling-voicemail-script/

You'll Learn:

• How often to send letters and cold call probate leads
• What to do when you're feeling imposter syndrome
• Best practices for leveraging EstateExec software
• Navigating uneven referral relationships
• How to use Facebook Pages vs. Groups in your real estate communities
• The difference between credibility websites and true content marketing

0:00 Attorneys want to present to my real estate audience (Attorney Referrals)
9:25 Facebook Pages vs. Groups for probate real estate (Facebook Marketing)
13:38 Subcontractors - Should they be bonded? (Vendor Team)
18:00 Certified Residential Specialist (Probate Certification)
19:49 EstateExec success story for estate management (Estate Marketing)
30:16 Probate Website or Community? (Probate Marketing Tips)
33:42 How many times should you cold call probate leads (Calling Probates)
39:49 Proven Probate Voicemail Scripts (Probate Cold Calling)
49:03 Mailing budgets for large markets (Calls and Mailers) (California Probate)
54:46 Dealing with imposter syndrome as a new probate agent (Probate Real Estate) (Colorado Probate )
1:01:59 Using community banks to buy probate properties - First Citizens Bank (Probate Investing) (California)

Join our Facebook Group: https://facebook.com/groups/estateprofessionalsmastermind

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Take the EARN Course and get the easy button for earning attorney referrals: https://courses.magnumopusproject.com/earn

The Ultimate Script Framework (FREE): Here's the mind-map we use to navigate ANY real estate conversation (cold calling and in person): https://courses.magnumopusproject.com/get-your-free-mind-map-YTO

Learn more at www.probatemastery.com

Transcript

0:19

First of all, Chad, thanks for everything you do. I think I can probably speak for everybody on this call that you're a great mentor and I've learned a lot from taking both of your courses, so thank you. Welcome everybody to the Weekly Probate Mastery Group Coaching call and the Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast. I'm the guest here now thanks to Bill Gross who's, uh, normally hosting you guys. He has the week off. I wanna talk about one thing before we get started is the estateprofessional.org. If you're not familiar with that, it's a directory we talked about a couple of weeks ago and we've kind of soft launched it to make sure we're not gonna have problems and we have the technology the way we want that. What's been really neat is just with the first few dozen people in, we're already seeing referrals. So we have already had members, uh, certified probate experts connect with attorneys out of state. So we're seeing those, those B2B connections already, and obviously in the beginning you can expect it's gonna be more b2b until we've actually gotten it out to the consumers, at which point it becomes B2C. So that's where it's important right now as, as a resource to us professionally. The more of the, more of our teams that we have in there, the more professionals we have, the more business we get them, the more they give back to us and vice versa. So just a reminder, if you haven't set your estate professional.org profile up, it is there, it is free. You do have premium placement as a certified probate expert. And we can talk about my big hairy audacious goals for that and where, where we think it's headed later. But we have, we do believe it can be an extremely valuable resource for us, B2B and B2C.. To do a really good profile. It probably takes you a half an hour. And I see at least a few of you in here that do already have profiles, and thanks for, for doing that and being an early adopter. Kind of cool to see, you know, leads roll through and actual connections made and, and get, you know, be able to, to be the bridge between you guys. So other than that, I don't have much. Who's got a success story, A struggle, Anything they wanna share, anything working or not working? Anyone not doing the work? You know, you should be and you need a good buck kicking by your peers. Hi, this is Mina. I have a question. How are you? I know you are messaging me and I've been like busy with everything, but I'm in, I'm in with Cal Williams in Los Angeles and, uh, Arizona, Phoenix. Uh, so, uh, with the support of Cal Williams in the South Bay we opened up a trust and probate division. Yeah. So it looks grander. It's not just me. Uh, but you know, I find that, and I think it's probably Los Angeles. I find that you know, I, I connect with attorneys. And, you know, I don't know, an eloquent way cuz they wanna come and speak in my office. Right. Which is great, but how do I say, Oh, well if you gimme business , I'll let you come speak. What's a nice way to say it? I don't, I, I think yes, is probably the nicest way to say it. And, you know, just like don't have such high expectations that they owe you something. Like just make sure, you know, you could put it as Yeah, that'd be great. Like, what, what topic would you like to, to present? And then just leave it at that. Put the onus on them to say, here's how we can provide value to your audience. You know, it's interesting, I have a radio show also and I've had some attorneys on there, like a real radio show. Yeah. And, uh, do you know, have they haven't sent me? I have them on my show and they haven't sent me anything. Yeah. Have you followed up, have you talked to them since the show? Yeah. You know, I have, and I dunno if they're just small or I, I, you know, I don't know. I think they're doing a lot of networking also. Are you a direct person and so mm-hmm. are, are you? I could be, I would like to, Have you taken the earn course? The, Which one? The, this one? No, I would encourage you to look there. I shared all of my best ideas in that course of how to actually get authentic connections with attorneys. Mm-hmm.. And I think you'll, you'll get some ideas of how to reconnect with those, those folks. But in that course, and the first. Hell, probably two hours. I really show you what the industry looks like. It from a macro to a micro standpoint, right? Right. So they've taken on a quarter million dollars worth of debt. They're taking a fiduciary position with every client. They're having the same conversation over and over and over, and every real estate professional that approaches them comes with a handout saying, Me, me, me. Give, give gift. Right? Right. And they come in. So this, this whole, the whole point of this course is to help you be empathetic to their position, not as an attorney, but as a small business owner. And to really find ways for your small business to support their small business. So, not here to promote my own course, but I what I Oh, no, no, I understand. Yeah. You need to find a way to reconnect with them, with a, you know, a question you can start by, you know, ask them a question like, how, how's your business going in 22? Is, do you have all the business you need and how can I help you reach that goal? If not right. Things like that, just reconnect with them cuz you've already, you've already provided value to them. And I'll challenge you. It's, it's, you know, we're all here to, we're in business to do business. Yes. But in order to get the right mindset in approaching them for a second time, I'll challenge you to change your mindset that they don't owe you anything. Right. You did something professionally that, that supported them. That's great. You built some social capital. You might not have cashed in on it yet, but Right. If you proceed with the mindset of they're going to pay me back eventually, I better check in and see how they're doing and what else I can do for them. Right. I think you'll find they're, you know, they're buried. And then we talk a lot about what I call administrative drag. In the earn course. 90% of their days are spent doing redundant, like repetitive, redundant administrative tasks. Right. And having the same conversation over and over. One of the things we're doing in the background that I don't think I've actually spoken about publicly, but what the hell we're actually looking at building consumer facing courses. Taught by attorneys where we'll be able to actually give, like, give you a license to those that you can give those to your attorneys so they don't have to hire a course production crew and do all the homework. Wow. To help educate their incoming clients instead of having a three hour conversation about the same five, the same thing they've done five times today already. Right. We'll give them an actual digital course to onboard their clients so their clients will come to that first appointment fully prepared and ready to roll with all the documents the way they want. It's gonna take some time. That'll be in 20, in 23, like, but that's happening now. That's being produced in the background. And ideally with the intent of having that be, have 50 versions of it potentially where we have. An attorney from every state as a sta, you know, a state level representative to stand behind that education, client education. But until then the Iron course gives you some ideas of how you can actually reduce administrative drag in a law firm so you can be right, received very differently, but also more importantly, once you've kind of began one of those relationships, there's actionable steps like the way for them to, to point business back. So but I would, you know, if someone was asking if an attorney's asking a real estate professional to speak to their audience, the answer is yes every time. But yeah, it's. Absolutely, what topic would you like to speak on? And if it's, you know, me and how to send referrals to 'em, be like, Yeah, that's kind of like, that's not very strong. Let's, let's put our heads together. We can come up with something that's really good. And then you can archive that content and actually maybe put it out to your actual consumer prospects and say, you know, we had the opportunity of having a California or an Arizona probate attorney in our office, and this is something that we, we we're gonna repurpose this and make it, you know, make it valuable to the consumers as well as your agents. Right, right. So, uh, just, I mean, off the top of my head, like if, if they do both planning and administration, let's, you know, let's do 15 minutes of speaking on planning, 15 minutes of speaking on the pains of administration. Mm-hmm. and then 15 minutes on how you can avoid all the problems that were discussed. That way your agents are empathetic to what the clients are going through and you have a piece of content that's valuable to the clients that you can use to promote your own business. Right. Right. So use 'em as use the, use the talent. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I also created a trust and probate page age on Facebook. Yeah. So, I don't know if groups are better than pages or pages are better than groups to promote to the public. Cause I want to do lives on there. The page is great for the first, the top of the funnel. So for the public to find you, the group is better for the public to stay engaged with you for a way for you to communicate. So use the page to get the group noticed. Use the group to market and communicate and, and actually nurture the relationship. Got it. So I can put the group in the page. Yeah. And again, in this course, that's one of the ideas that I, I expand and kinda show you how to create a community group with your vendor team. So every week you are producing content to help rope them in. So you would start by creating a page with your brand and create a group for your, for that. And I would imagine you might have two groups. You might have the Los Angeles group, right? And the Phoenix group. Yes. And then you have the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, come and speak on topics that are valuable to consumers. So you get your estate planning attorney, you get your estate administration, you get somebody who works with, you know, with, uh, asset protection or spend thrift trust for your high net worth clients in LA and, and Phoenix. Just anyone that can bring value. Social workers, care managers, uh, senior placement agencies. Yes. Yes. So anytime somebody's googling what my mom is, you know, dad died, Mom needs a safe place to live. Like they'll find that group. Or as they'll find the page and eventually find the group. Do you have any VAs that are good at moderating or helping with all this social media stuff that know the industry? I have Katt and she's my right arm and all of this. So my advice would be to find yourself someone like Katt, someone who shares your values, that actually cares about this conversation and this community, and they'll pour themselves into it like she does. I think people, you know, not maliciously, but I get a lot of, a lot of credit for what she does. A lot of it is her, cuz her heart's in it. She cares about this community and the consumer impact. So, VAs are attractive cuz it's three or four bucks an hour. But I would say invest in somebody like Katt invest in somebody locally that can see the passion you have that can see the reason and the purpose behind your work, and you'll never have to manage them. Katt always hides on these calls, but she knows, maybe she knows somewhat that, uh, would be open to, you know, learning the culture of this and helping me out. So, So one thing I'll say is, you know, look at, look at agents who are struggling in your market but have done a good job with their social media presence. Oh, that's interesting. There's a lot of those. So they probably are struggling cuz they spent too much time working on that first and you know, but there's, it's, it's not hard to find agents with really beautiful branding and a social presence and posting multiple videos a day and busting their ass, but they didn't hold a client base first. They, they let, they led with that when that should have been supplementary to other things that are more proven Right. More, uh, more dollar productive. Though we know that we have an 88% failure rate in the brokerage side of the. And within the first three years. So Will, why not find someone who's already well versed in real estate, right? Has a license as the social media skill set and say, Hey, how about a solid base and my mentorship, right? You can be my social media manager and I'll mentor you. If you still wanna stay in production, you're in my down line. I'll mentor you. I like it. So recruit someone who's struggling at a different company. I mean, that's what you guys do. I mean, you're recruiters, right? Recruiters. Oh, go grab somebody with a beautiful, beautiful social media presence and three closed deals last year. There's your target. I love it. Okay. Thank you so much, Chad. Yeah. That's how can I help you, sir? Yeah. First of all, Chad, thanks for everything you do. I think I can probably speak for everybody on this call that you're a great mentor and I've learned a lot from taking both of your courses, so thank you. Thank you. The question is, I have a variety of, uh, I'll call'em subcontractors that are just basically people that I use to have work done and they're insured. But sometimes I wonder if left alone to their own devices, if I'm not there, should they also be bonded? Do you think that's a good idea or is that just overkill? Uh, are you, are you speaking from the GC role? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I just like you, I do the real estate. I also do the appraisal. I'm a certified appraiser. Uh, those things never cross, but you know, you can't do one with the other. But say you're clean out people or you're handyman people or that kind of thing. I was just wondering if maybe bonding them. Would be overkill or whether they're, whether just being insured is good enough. It's, it's always been good enough for me. What I find is, is the more requirements you have, the less options you have, right. In, in that, in that particular area, finding somebody who's bonded, insured, and also a good self-managing contractor, you know, they're probably a gc , not, not a sub, right? So it's, it's a pretty tight filter. What I would recommend is just, just make sure you've got the right policies in place on your GC company, and that you've got an umbrella and you're probably fine working the way you are. I just make subs show me proof of insurance and if they're working on a house that I own, I make them name me as additionally insured. I still get letters from insurance companies, from contractors, from. Hell years ago, cuz they never rolled me off the list. So I get a copy of their policy every time it renews. And I just I did that with, everyone that was part of the requirement is, you, you add me on, on your policy is additional insured so I can see that your policy's current. That way. I knew at least every six months that the guys I was working with or were working for me, that they had, you know, had active policies and I, I never had any trouble. In today's labor market, you can't be too damn choosy. It's, it's pulling teeth. I've been working since February to get a well drilled and, uh, hvac, uh, radiant floor HVAC installed, and I'm still, this is, I've never been stuck this long, but I'm in an extremely rural area and I've offered to offered to buy a brand new well drilling rig if a guy would come and show up and drill and it still didn't work. So it's, uh, you kinda have to take what you can get right now. Yeah, that's true in some sectors. I have a, a tremendous redundancy in people that I can call to have certain things done, and in other places it's a black hole. There's just nothing there. What market are you in? I'm in rural southeastern Ohio. Rural neighbors. What redundancy do you have? Send them over here. I'll make 'em rich. We had no tradesmen here. Well, I don't know where they traveled down to where you're at. Beckley. I don't think they'd go that far, quite frankly. I'm near Snowshoe. I'll give them a farmhouse to live in and pick up the drive. Send them. Craig, we just drove by you. We were in uh uh, South Carolina. As a matter of fact, it came shore right where we were vacationing. So we got the H out of there. But yeah, we drove right by you. Yep, that's where I'm at. Well if tell 'em if they need work, come to Snowshoe. I mean we like it Doesn't matter. Any tradesman. An HVAC guy, you can print money here. You can name your price cuz they're just so few. So, All right. Looking at the comments. Katt's getting all kinds of love over there. That's awesome. Mina, Renee Kische, who is on here... hollywood, Renee. I don't see. Uh, yes, Yes, we've been connected. I just messaged each, . Okay, perfect. Thank you. Lynette said CRS is adding a probate certification. Great. Have you taken it Lynette No. It's not supposed to be available to like November, but I just thought it was interesting that they were adding that certification. Just one more, you know, thing that people can add their.. We, uh, I actually talked with, I talked with them about it back in 2018 or 19. I was wondering if you were involved with it., they want, they want half your company. And I would rather, I would rather contribute that money to the payroll of awesome team members than I would to one of the biggest lobbyists in the United States. So for me it made more sense to actually put that back into the community than to put it into those coffers that already paid dues into mm-hmm. So, Right. It'll be interesting to see who their instructor is and, and what results they've gotten. Hopefully it adds value to our community and it brings awareness to it. I mean, guys, we're looking at 70.3 million baby boomers that will go through this, this transition in life in the next 40 years. There is a lot of of business to go around, but more importantly, there's a lot of struggle happening, Like in, in that baby boomer demographic. There's families every day that are just, it's, it's, it's gonna be needed more and more and more. So I, anything that brings awareness to it is, is a good thing in my opinion. Like the nursing home industry doesn't have a solution. Luckily, real estate does. The more we can get the word out to people and get them to raise their, their level of professionalism and the better off that everyone's market will be. All right. Anybody have anything else? Any, any stories or objections? Anywhere you got stuck? Anything you've done recently that's worked really well you wanna share or willing to share? Just a quick question, Uh, Chad. Yeah. Has anybody had success with, uh, a state exec so far, Any success stories with that that maybe can be shared? There've been lots and lots of buzz around it. I know Dan is like, they're, they're experiencing an uplift and monthly users. Uh, is anyone on here responsible for that? Is it your clients that are coming through? I, I know a lot of folks are using it. A lot of folks have gotten their, their profiles in the state exec where they come up in the local checklist. Anybody on here that's actually got the success story with estate, a state exec? Yeah, Brian's got one. Yeah. I, I don't know if you guys saw the video with Chad, but I come from a tech background and I lead with a estate exec, and it is, it has been a game changer around the DC area. It's a, it's a, uh, highly technically astute area except for the estate attorneys. So when you tell them that you can help them with their tech and it's gonna make their life easier and eliminate some of their administrative drag it really kind of goes over their head. They know that they need something, they know that they need the help and you're providing that value to them. And I, I've led with that and have developed multiple relationships, uh, just because of the state effect so far. And I'm, and I'm hoping to do the same thing with, uh, with the state professionals because I think that that's that takes us outside of the, uh, j just that strict focus of the attorney and the pr relationship. Yeah. Have you attempted anything with it that's not working, Bruce? No, I was just going to present it to somebody working with an estate right now. And so, the attorney and I had spoke. We met, I've got the keys to the house and there are a lot of things that should be just centralized as what that program does, and just makes it easier on everybody, makes it easy on their personal representative, makes it easy on the attorney, and it also can accelerate the process because they'll have all their paperwork done quicker. So I'll give you some, I guess just some facts that I don't think I really shared in the course, but you know, Dan, the founder and CEO of EstateExec, he's a Harvard educated programmer. He helped build Microsoft and Google, and he's created and exited company successfully. He can literally build anything in the world, like he, he has the skill set, the network, and, and he's in the position. He built this platform out of passion after losing his parents. So when you're speaking with people, you can say, Listen, you know, we have exclusive access, all of our clients do, and we purchase for them a license to a software written by a Harvard educated developer that is spent multiple millions of dollars solving your biggest problem. So one thing I can assure you is the clients who come through from me as a referral will be some of the best clients you've ever had. And all I ask is an opportunity to prove that to you. So there's the backstory behind the state exec. It's not just something sexy that we could tag onto this and, and use it as a sales promo. Like it's because Dan is the right kind of person. He's the kind of person we find in this community, and he is doing it for the right reasons. He could have, you know, he's, he's built software that's gotten 50,000 users before lunchtime each day. And this is a hard road to hoe from a software standpoint because it's something, you know, just, just like what Brian said, the attorneys don't know what they need. They don't know that, that the solutions are out there. So he's, he's just like us. We haven't chosen the easiest route, but we've chosen the most fulfilling one. So you can kind of lean on on his credentials and, and I mean, quite honestly, they have spent millions of dollars developing it to where it is right now, and it gets better every day. So you can kind of use that and say, you know, listen there, there's a guy who, who was on top of the world in software. That came back down here to fix this problem, and I can put it in your hands and I'll give you the best client you've ever worked with. Great. That's a great segue. Yeah. Thank you. Mina, Yes, you can use a state executive is 50 state and 3,149 county compatible. They have actually done the work of working with attorneys and, and basically, I won't say every, but eventually they will have specifics on every county and every state. So there's only 16 states. Last time I checked, there's only 16 states in the entire nation that adopted a uniform probate code that have any kind of consistency. They're typically smaller, like more rural communities. So if you live in, in a major msa, I'll say one of the top 50 MSAs, there's pretty much a specific probate process and it gets, and the more people, the more complicated because the more attorneys you've got involved and the more, the more, you know, leg policy has been written around it. So, That's one of the really, really unique things, and it looks simple on the front end, but the back end of it's a nightmare from a software standpoint is having, you know, locally specific checklists with locally vetted professionals. And that's what, you know, the direction we're moving with the state professional.org is getting. The community we've built here with the, with the integrity and the level of professionalism, getting that into those checklists where an executor doesn't have to struggle, like your team becomes loaded into that. So when it comes time to clean out the house, boom, you have one of your team members is suggested. When it comes time to talk about real estate, you are suggested. So that's one of the really unique things about it that, you know, I've always wanted to build a knowledge base of, you know, 50 state specific probate knowledge, but it's a massive undertaking. So that's what's most valuable to me in that partnership is they've actually taken on that expense and, and actually built that. So anywhere you are, it should be compatible. Anthony said, I just started the course. Where do I find a state exec? I think it's in providing value first to earn referrals as the name of the module. And you'll see the, the lesson within that title to state exec. There's one where I jabber on about it and then there's one where Matthew from a state exec actually shows you how to videos, how to use it and get started. Pete, Mark, I see a hand up. How are you? Hi Chad. How you doing? I just wanted to address the state exec software. I used it once and I gave it to a client and he was ecstatic that I gave it to him. However, he hasn't started using it. It's just been sitting there and I think he, I think, I don't think he's overwhelmed cuz he is an, he's an engineer type. But I think it's overwhelming the amount of stuff that he has to enter in there to keep track of it. But it still, it's still on a positive note. Uh, he's very happy with it. Uh, I think he used, there's a lot of information in there, like you said, Chad, they have to, the lawyers have to repeat four or five, six times a day. Uh, he just went in there and read everything. He's doing it pro, he's doing it by himself. He doesn't have a, an attorney yet. Uh, however, the attorney that he's going to use, uh, I sent him, uh, uh, you know, a trial of an estate and he came back at me and said, Well, if this thing's as good as, you know, you say it is, it's gonna put me outta business. So my question, I guess to you would be, how do I get around that? And showing him exactly that it will enhance his, his business for his clients. So, Mr. Attorney, if you think the value of of being in business is being an administrative processor, we should probably talk about some other ways. I can help you with your, let's start with customer service. What if, what if you that, and you are actually able to take the, the surviving family member and put in the state plan in place for them with all the extra time you would've spent chasing paper? Can you monetize that service? Then let's, let's focus on that. Let's remove the administrative drag from your business and let's make you more revenue by a state planning than a state administration. That would be my answer. You need to shift the mindset of the attorney. Like I said, be a small business owner supporting a small business owner. He's caught, he, he's been in this loop of administrative horse shit for so many years. He thinks it's his job. He thinks it's why he went to law school. Well, he's, I mean, he's a one show in his office, so he basically does everything and what do we call. That's a shitty job, not a business. So let's just help him actually turn his shitty job into a business. Like he's, he's using something as a, as an objection. That's just showing what, like the position he's in. Like he's a prime prospect to help get out of his own way by helping deal like, you know, get with the times, use software that can help you be more, more top, more, do use your time in a more dollar productive manner. And you know, if I give you an extra five hours a day, what would you do with it? And he may sit around on Facebook and waste it, but what he should be doing is actually calling people. I say, Hey, who do you know that doesn't have an estate plan? And how can I help? And so shift his mindset. You can be, don't be as abrupt as I'm being here, but I'm trying to make a point. Like he's just, he's thinking about his business the wrong way. Okay. Thank you. All right. I mean, he's, he's given me four or five referrals, so he's my prime referral attorney. It's just like you said, he's been in this circle so long, so I appreciate it. Thanks, Chad. Buy him a copy of Traction the book. Okay. Geno Wickman's Traction and ask him to read that. Sounds good. Thank you. Mm-hmm., Larry Smith, how can Hey Chad, how you doing? Well, hey couple of questions. I got several here websites. Do you think I should spend this time working on websites? I mean, how much I, I don't know if it's dollar productive. I'm kind of getting your, your feed. I, I've got a all the leads website, but I know that's not. Generating any business. There's no SEO involved in that, but mm-hmm., just curious what your take is, if it's worth it, if it's something we should pursue. Not for most, not for most. The amount that it takes, like it takes. Thousands of hours and thousands of dollars to build a really good website that that attracts business. Okay. In the probate space, there's very, very little search intent for the consumer looking for a real estate solution or anything. They're typically looking for attorneys and they don't find much there either. So search intent and search volume search, search volume is very low across the country a better way. Like is is, Have you taken the earn course? I do. Yeah. Yeah. So you heard me talk about building a community, like building a Facebook, right? Honestly, Long term that that's gonna be a far more valuable asset in your local community than, than a single website would be. I would recommend keeping your current website so you have somewhere to land traffic that can point back to the community. Mm-hmm.. Because when you go, when you enter, when you, if you're not already, when you get yourself set up in a state exec, they're going to, in the checklist, they will, it will link out to your website and a scheduling page. When you put your, your profile in state professional.org, have the website, you can also point to your groups. But if, like, as far as, as you know, potential return I think an hour spent presenting a topic that's valuable to consumers in a Facebook group is gonna be far over time. I think it's gonna be more valuable than an hour spent writing a blog post. It's just, it's, it's tough. It takes a, a long, long time to, to do, and it's, it's easy to wear yourself out trying to get there. So I would, I, like I said, I, I'm not suggesting you take your current website down, something's better than nothing. But as far as getting that thing to index and create inbound business, it's pretty tough to do. Yeah. Okay. Where with the community, you can do it in a matter of days. If, if you have your vendor team and you have someone pitching every Tuesday night presenting basically an hour long class to the com to the public, then you create an archive that becomes discoverable I think you'll get a lot further with the same amount of time. And less struggle. I'm trying to remember. There are some resources within the EARN course to create a Facebook group. Okay. Yeah. There, there's a module that that talks about. Okay. I don't, I don't do the app like, like the, exactly. Here's, here's how start to finish. But if you've ever engaged much with Facebook groups, it's pretty straightforward. The reason I didn't do a howto is because it's gonna be obsolete in three months as soon as they make UI changes. And I wasn't gonna chase recreating that over and over and over. So I really give you the concepts and, and the ideas and, and what to, how to do, like, what to do, not how to do it, because that's, that's gonna change all the time. So I get a couple of other quick questions. Uh, going to, uh, best practices on call protocol. When you're calling the, uh, petitioners, the PRs, do you have like a number of times you wanna run through that inventory? What's too little? What's too much? I'm just curious. By inventory, you mean the, the list of petitioners? Yeah. Oh, real estate term, I mean, yeah. In, theory we wanna, actually, we wanna speak with 100% of them. That's incredibly difficult to do these days. Like even with, you know, I have several friends that run call centers or contacts that I've spoken to. Contact rates are around 5% across the board. Yeah. So you're gonna fail. 95% of the time you're gonna leave voicemails that never get returned. In theory, if you have the time and, and. You know, you want to keep calling until you've spoken to all of them. Some of the most valuable leads in my almost decade of experience with this, the, the easiest to convert probate lead is the one who has ignored everybody's phone calls for the last three years and your phone call creates a breakthrough. One of those, son of a bitch, he just reminded me what I've been running away from, and then they actually engage with you and you can help do, you can just do to have your team come in and do everything for them. They're, they're more submissive at that point. Not, not that that's, we're not looking for, but they, they know like every morning they wake up thinking, you know, I really, I really need to do that. But it's so painful. It's, you know, it's, it's such like I've created this, this block that I'm not going to do it today. And I. Honestly, I've gotten calls from people that had my letters hanging on the refrigerators for two and three years. And man, when they made the decision, it, it happened in days house, empty house on the market, house sold. So if you, if you have the time you know, to go back through those lists, just keep calling until they say, you know, no, or please help me. We've, we've, we've done nothing. Okay. So I realize how challenging that is. This compounds very quickly. If you have a hundred people a month, at the end of the year, you got 1200. And if you didn't, didn't keep notes and constantly keep in touch with them. You don't know which 1200 have sold, which ones haven't, where they're at in the process. It's, you know, that's, that's the challenging thing. That's why, you know, the earn course is, is really. Uh, is, it's for, and myself included, nobody can prospect hardcore all day in and day out every day. Like, just based on that. That's, that's too general of a statement. People who are really good at, at, at being real estate professionals oftentimes don't have the, the willpower tenacity to do that every day. There's obviously people who do that as their primary, you know, Job ISAs can do that every day, but us, we're typically visionary entrepreneurs. Like we, we chase and chase something new. We're, we're reading six books at the same damn time, , and it's just usually not sustainable for us to, to hammer the phones eight hours a day, you know, day in and day out for five years. Mm-hmm., unless you're a Mike Ferry, you know, follower, you're probably not doing that. So, What earn is, is an opportunity for you. Instead of, you know, being down on yourself and quitting, it's an opportunity to kind of switch. Like, Okay, I'm gonna work attorneys, well, let's getting exhausting. I'm gonna go work with personal reps. Well, I got my ass handed to me, no one's answering the phone. I'm gonna go talk to attorneys. So for me, like quite honestly and candidly, it's an opportunity for me to present a different approach to get the same result for the consumer and for your business. But instead of people getting to the point where they're burnout on the phones or with direct mail and quitting mm-hmm. it's like, let's try a different approach. Let's, let's go be, let's go B2B and serve the same clients. So that's what I would recommend is hit the phones when you can hit the attorneys when you're tired of it and mm-hmm., like, you'll, you'll do well if you're done both. Yeah. So that was my take on it. It seems like, you know, with. Where I'm at, you can't represent yourself. So, so many of the people that I have talked to, so the education has been that they're re they are relying heavily on the attorney's lead and almost all of it. Are you in Texas? Yeah, I'm in Texas. Yeah. So it, it seems like that is the ultimate play is just to stay marketing and working with attorneys. I'll tell you, it's the path of least resistance because you can, you know, you can. You can do more, less work in a more professional manner and get the same amount of business. And what I mean by that is you can spend, I mean if you, if, if you've watched Brian's interview, he took the course in two days. He set appointments in one day and went two days, I think it was, I think it was about a five day timeline to have six inbound referrals. How many of us have gotten six deals from prospecting a cold probate list in their first five days? Mm-hmm. No. So like, it's, it's a way to, it's just working at a higher level. There are fewer people who are gonna have the courage and the level of professionalism and ethics to approach an attorney with something valuable. So we almost have no competition. And it's pretty cool when these attorneys are like, Holy shit, no one's ever asked me that. No one's ever, no one's ever offered to do anything like that for my business. And you got 'em like it's a lifetime relationship. As long as you, you know, really listen to what they have to say in that course. Like, they want to make sure we, even if we're not a fiduciary to the, to the their client, they are and they wanna see that transferred. They want that level of customer service and, and legal, you know, legal responsibility. So it's, it's higher level work that honestly requires less work to get the same or better result than prospecting the families. if we are gonna call the The personal reps. We call them executors or executives here, but, uh, number of rings, uh, number of voicemails. Uh, Bill Gross, I talked to him. He's not a big voicemail guy. I know that when you were with all the leads you recommended doing that, or maybe it was Bruce Hill that did. No, it's me. I like, when I first started this and what, you know, the system that all the leads, what we taught there really came out of my efforts. And I, you know, at the time, Mary Lou Tyler that wrote Predictable Revenue, she was using my business was kind of a case study. And I tracked every KPI the first 12,000 pieces of mail and the first 12,000 phone calls made. Like I tracked all that and really, like that was, that was my test case. I basically took a year's worth of data and or the first year's worth of data and just followed it through meticulously and I mean, mega geeked out on it. So a lot of the things. And, and you know, I taught Bruce, I, I brought Bruce into this. Uh, we met around that time and he was leaving Roanoke and transitioning into Raleigh. So I didn't see him as competition, so I was like, Hey, let me show you how I became, you know, I did 52 deals my first year in a market where you did 20. And it was probate was my answer. Like, You know, I, I found a niche. I found my blue ocean, and I made myself valuable. So Bruce and I started to work through this. He's done a ton of testing too, as he got his feet under him and Raleigh. What I've found is, I, I know I no longer look at voicemail as a sales tool. Voicemail is simply a branding impression. It's almost useless to put a call to action, but we're gonna try it anyways. So for me, I tested over a dozen voicemail scripts, and then I tracked the response and I did this through live calling. I did this through Ringless voicemail. But what I found to be the most effective message is, Hey, this is Chad. I sent you a letter last week, had a couple minutes in the office today. I just wanted to see if I could catch you. You know, gimme a shout when you have a chance. And, uh, 5, 5, 5, 1, 2, 3, 4. That is you. Now, if, if you leave a vague message like that, you do need to be prepared for the callback. They're gonna be on edge. They'll be up on the ball with their feet defensive because you are very vague. And they're like, Well, who the hell is Chad? What the hell does he do? Which to me is awesome because they're not in a behavioral pattern in their brain. I'm actually speaking to their prefrontal cortex as soon as I pick up the phone. So they're like, Who are you? Why did you call me? And I'm like, Yes, you might be aggressive, but you're engaged. And that's really the point of being on the phone, is to have an engaged person on the other end. So for me, I liked it. If you're, if you're weak if you're timid, if you don't believe in what you're doing, you'll probably get your ass chewed out a few times by doing that. But that, that was to me, the way that I could get the most returned phone calls. And that was at that, you know, when I was really meticulously tracking all this was in 20 15, 16, mm-hmm. I had a 2% callback rate, so I failed 98% of the time. But I saw those 98% of voicemails left as a branding impression. You know, it was different than what everybody else was saying, cuz everyone else is trying to sell on voicemail. Hi, my name's Chad with ABC Real Estate. I, I'm one of the top agents in this market. I focus on these zip codes and I noticed that you have it, you're the executor of a state and you might need blah, blah. Like, it's, it's a, it's a different voice. And all I wanna do is get 'em to look, right? If they go look for the letter that I sent, or if they go look for my online reputation then it's a branding impression. So for me, it's worth the two seconds. Or, you know, it's worth the five seconds that it takes me to leave a brief message knowing that 2% of the time I might get an abrasive callback that I can turn into a really great conversation. Because what I found about the callbacks is, and you've gotta peel the layers of the onion, but the people who call back, they are in, they're feeling a struggle and they wanna know their curiosity is what made them call back. Even if they call back and say, You son of a bitch, you sent me three letters and I, I, I told someone in your office, Don't you do that. It's like, it's interesting, like, help me understand why you would've called today? you could have just thrown that in the mail and not spent all this emotional energy on this call. Call 'em to the carpet. Mm, exactly. You'll, you'll find the biggest, toughest ones will crack and be all gooey in the center. And they'll be like, Damnit, dude, I just can't do this anymore. These people are driving me crazy. And then you e empathize with them. Yeah. Like I know, That's why I have the courage to do it the way I do it, because I can actually help you if you gimme a chance with tomorrow around one or three, which time's better. Right. And like be direct on those. Mm-hmm.. So the ones that call back is hard. Asses are usually the ones begging for help the most. You just, it takes skill to get through. You've gotta pierce the armor of the ego so you can talk to the person. So that's, that's kind of my take on, on voicemail. What I've learned over time. It's worth doing. As far as frequency is the, the next part of that question, people usually ask. Yeah. If you're, if you're a tenacious prospector and you're calling the same list every day, don't leave a voicemail every time., Yeah. Like my rule of thumb is one voicemail every two weeks is reasonable. If you're leaving one, you know more often than that, and these people are really in deep grieving, you can become a thorn in their side. Once a month is certainly reasonable. Once every two weeks would be my maximum. unless something shifts in the marketplace, a buyer comes up like a, a very specific reason that you're reaching out to them. And then the frequency could be daily. You know, listen, I, I've noticed the door was kicked in on the, on 1, 2, 3 Walnut Street, and according to Texas State law, they, you now have a landlord tenant relationship. I have notified the sheriff and ask him to patrol the neighborhood, but I need you to call me back. Like, that's something you leave a voicemail every damn day until you're talking to them and you get a lot of credit for being the one that, you know, help minimize the damage that that could have been done. So there's exceptions to it, but if it's just a general prospecting voicemail once a month, twice a month, max. Gotcha. So you come from the school of having some emotion is better than no emotion? When you get those angry callbacks, that's. That means they care. It does. I know a lot of people don't think of it that way, but. They do typically, it means they're, they're very ego driven. They don't have a strong level of self-awareness. But if you know how to deal with that, and if not, there's some really good books on that. Uh, Ryan Hollow wrote a book called Ego is the Enemy. Chris Voss, his book, Never Split the Difference, will actually teach you some skills on how to manage those personalities. Tony Robbins, I think the best sales course ever made was Tony Robbins mastering influence. It really, it teaches you to focus on the people and as you always hear me say, it's people and situation, we'll get the real estate. That's hell, that's the easy part. We already know how to do that. If we can be professionals, like if we can understand how people think and what feelings and what emotions drive their actions, then we can really, really be skilled salespeople. So study the ego, like in, in the clinical sense. Not that you often hear ego means overconfidence. It's not really that it's, it's that part of our, it's that little voice in our head that says, in that scenario, the son of a bitch is trying to steal my mom's house and I'm gonna give him a piece of my mind! And what he's showing you is this big tough facade of, I, you know, I've had people say, I'm, I'm, I'm sitting in front of your office. The guy drove all the way across town to come kick my ass one day and hell, I turned him into a buyer. Like I, he was on my investor, let my cash buyer list, but all he needed was someone to talk to. Like, he was hurting. He hadn't been able to vent that out cuz his ego was showing the world this tough guy. And when he met a tougher guy, he became putty and he was just a good guy. But his, what his ego is telling him is, present the world with this rough and tough redneck that'll kick ass and take names by God. But once I cracked him, he was actually a really professional dude and he had cash and he was afraid to buy a foreclosure house. And I got him to talk, talking about his fears. So that's what I'm saying, like I don't mind those abrasive inbounds, or even if I'm outbounding and they get abrasive, cuz then I know I got something right? Like there's some pain in there that I know I can help heal if they'll let me. And they won't all let you. Some people are just, you know, they just aren't.. Some people are just .... have a really low EQ and just wanna bitch and complain about everything. But the ones that are asking for help sometimes do it in a desperate way and I have fun with them. Mm, Good stuff. Chad. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Yeah, great questions, Elvis, How can we help you, sir? Hey Chad, good afternoon. Thank you. So I'm still going through the course and I wanna ask you briefly, if we're gonna pick out a certain area that we're gonna send out letters to, are you focused on like a radius, 50 miles, 10 miles, or a hundred leads per month that you're gonna start? What market are you in? Los Angeles. It's a big county, man. I mean, it's, it's six hours across the county, right? So it's, it's probably not feasible for you to work all of LA County. I would either work geographically or demographically where you would prefer to do business. So if you do better in a certain community of people or a certain net worth, focus on that. Or if you just don't want to drive more than an hour, draw that circle and focus on that geography, but it, it's kind of personal. It comes down to you like you know, death isn't picky. It doesn't matter. It's 3,149 counties and over 30,000 zip codes. The grim reaper visits them all. So there's people going through this no matter where you are. It's kind of choosing who you want to help. I guess I was more concerned of the mailouts that are gonna go out to these people. You, for sure recommended three months, right? But if we can do 12 months even better. Yeah. And that's kind of the way I was looking at it. Like, you know, I, I can easily pick out 300 leads a month to start sending 'em out letters. But, uh, maybe, maybe this will help you. So for me, like in all that tracking that I was talking about earlier, I tracked the, the first 12,000. What I found is I could convert 6% of a cold list over a quarter, over a three month period. So roughly 2% per month per list. Now, those would obviously overlap and begin to compound, and I would market for three months, but over that quarter, I could count on 2% of that list actually doing business with me. So in your case, if it was 300, you would've 300 to first month. 300 a second month, and then at at month three, you would hit the critical mass.. Or you said month 12. I mean, your critical mass would be 3,600 phone calls, 3,600 letters. And obviously they roll off... if you're managing your list correctly and you're using a CRM and indicating the ones that said no, already sold it, there is no real estate, whatever. Then those numbers come down over time. But it's a pretty, it's a big budget. Like if you're gonna do 3,600 pieces in month 12, like just look at your budget. There's, in the Probate Mastery course, one of the handouts as a calculator I developed in my own business years ago, Have you seen that the probate ROI. Yeah. So you can use that to kind of, to set a proper expectation for your budget and your ROI. That's why I built that tool. I chose to focus on two counties with 120 leads per month. Mm-hmm., and that got yielded me, you know, uh, enough to, Well, it just, the, if I would've had a third county that had the same similar lead counts and demographics, I would've taken on another one. I feel like I could have easily handled 200. Yeah. I've seen people handle, you know, Cook County, Illinois, Los Angeles, Maricopa, Those are the three biggest in the, in the country. And I've seen people, like individuals able to actually take those entire markets and handle them and get the work done. It's pretty rare, like it's a hell of a lot of work. Mm-hmm.. So you've gotta look at your budget, look at your time. and make your decision, but I think you can easily manage 200 a month. Yeah. Okay. And then regarding the calling, how often do you call new leads? Like the first five days and then every two weeks? So, and I've spent a lot of time working with folks from LA.. You've got attorneys there who are selling the list for, it's a very low barrier to entry to get data in Los Angeles County. So you've got much more noise on the phones and in the mailbox in LA than you do in most markets, Making it really tough. You've gotta differentiate yourself in the first four seconds of the phone call. What makes you different? Because they have, in my experience in LA they've developed the pattern and they know how to run people off. Nope, we got it handled, Our attorneys taken care of it. And that's the most common one you're gonna hear. Or they're just not going to answer because they've heard from 17 wholesalers have, have battered 'em up. I would say be careful not to discourage yourself because working the phones in LA is, is a really hard road up. You're likely to find faster success and a higher return by working with attorneys in your particular market, just because you have so much noise out there. And I think, I know there people in the LA county on this call, I think that people would agree with me. It's, it's a tough market to work and using things like attorney relationships, community, Facebook groups, in person meetups, that, that help families going through this a different offer to, to punch through all that noise and actually show them something they haven't seen before, is gonna be your approach. My advice would've been different in 2011 or 2012, but there are a bunch of lists floating around that are real cheap in your market, and a bunch of people who barely know what probate is trying to get deals, and they're making it harder for everybody. So I would focus more on what you've learned in the EARN course than probate mastery. If you want to have any of that beautiful hair left in five years.. Thank you.. Is that what happened to you, Chad? It is. This is what probate Don't probate the wrong way. All right, Kim, how can I help you today? Hi Chad. I've kind of been lingering and watching all of your videos, but not actually been a live call. Just gonna admit that I kind of got scared cuz I tried a bunch of different things and it didn't really work. Like, went to the courthouse and they said they weren't allowed to provide lists. And then I called all the leads. I'm in Colorado, by the way. And then all the leads said they weren't allowed to provide the lists until after the probate had happened. And then I networked with, I actually got two attorneys to meet with me in person and I feel like it went relatively well. But I'm only a year into the real estate industry in general. And then I've never done a probate deal, so I feel like I just kind of like crashed and burned cuz I didn't really have any experience to kind of give them. Okay. Well thanks for being here and thanks for stepping up. What you'll find in this community is we've got Lynette in Denver and Dave Gwinn also in Denver, both on this call right now. Both have been working one of the toughest markets in the entire country... for hell, you guys have been here for years at this point, so it can be done. I will say that Colorado is the toughest state I've ever coached in because of the way the data is recorded. Mm-hmm. There is a way to gain access to it. You can pay $5 per record and get the data on petition, but it, it's very costly. Right. I think you what, what county are you in? What city and town I'm in Larimer County, like Fort Collins up north. Okay. So you're not indirect competition with these two. Right. I do know that I coached a Mike Ferry student in Larimer, Weld. And , what's another surrounding county? Laer Weld. There's another county right there. We did three counties. Okay. He was a Mike Ferry guy. He kept a spreadsheet for every action he took in his business on a daily basis, which was super helpful for me. What we found in four months of tenacious day to day prospecting, tracking KPIs, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. He came back to me, I said, You, and this is when I was maybe in year two of building all the leads. And I said, Fred, here's the deal. I never wanna be the guy that's taking money from you. I wanna be the guy that's getting you a return. So stop, Stop paying for a subscription. Stop buying leads until we get a positive roi. And then you can make a decision whether that makes sense to start back up again in the next eight weeks.... so remember, this is four months into the story.... He had three counties, I think his total, total leads per month. And those three were probably around 150 leads. We did four deals in a, I think it was a three or four day period. It was in month six! The people he was reaching out to in month one came to him and they were ready to roll. They did business and I think. It was the median price in that market at the time was like mid fours, which is showing how old this story is, Right? But Fred did, he, he ended up throw four transactions off of those, those first four lists. We did four transactions in a week and, and all like at once. So what I've found in Colorado is it's a longer game. Because you've got a lot of investors are skip-tracing obituaries. They're pulling obituaries, skip tracing every known family member and hammering those people. I have actually seen people petition on behalf of, of like for the estate which is not technically illegal, but I wouldn't say is the most ethical thing. Like people opening estates, before the family can, I've seen that happen in Colorado twice now. So, it's a tough market. However, you've got people like Dave Gwinn who works that market and works a remote market. He works virtually a market in Florida. You've got, Lynette has really found her groove in the higher net worth crowd in Colorado, and she's found some really interesting opportunity to help people. So what I would say is, lean on the community like you are now, but get to know these folks, discuss ideas.. Go by them beer. Like that goes a long ways in real estate. People love beer in real estate. Mm-hmm.. But it's, it's more difficult, I think. Have you taken the EARN course? Not yet. I just took probate mastery among, Well, that's something that, again, because of the market you're in and the specifics and my experience there, you're probably better off just really, really helping the attorneys around that market. Help them, you know, do less work and get more business than they ever have. And that'll be your niche. Like you'll, you'll be their gal. So look at, you know, follow what some of the ideas in this course and focus on the attorneys using the attorneys to reach the consumers. And I'll, I'll just give you some insight into my advice. You've been, you're willing to be vulnerable in front of this community and somewhat admit failure or feeling like you've failed. That takes a lot of courage. And thank you for doing that. Like, that's an important part of this being valuable for all of us. My advice would be different if you came in with more strength and be like, Hey, I've done B and C and all I care is give me D I'm gonna, I'm ready to go try. Like, if you had a, I'm ready to run through Wall's attitude. My advice may be a little different, but I think considering where you're at and some of the self-talk that I can see in you, you should go give yourself, like, this is gonna be easier, it's gonna be more rewarding. And then come back to consumer prospecting later whenever you've got some confidence. Mm-hmm.. I would also encourage you to not give a shit about how many years you've been in the business. There's an 88% failure rate within three years. Most people in this business aren't professional to begin with or when they fail, so it's not ever going to serve you to say, "Well, I'm new." Don't be timid! Find, find, like, find a level of professionalism you can be proud of. And when someone says, How many years you've been on the bus in the business, help me understand why you asked that question. Is your response, Don't answer. Help me understand why that's important to you and put it back on 'em. Turn the table and use their own psychology against them. It doesn't matter how many years you've been in the business, what matters. Do you deliver on what you promise? Do you do it in an ethical manner? That's all that matters in this business. So like I'm asking you to get like, first acknowledge that you've got some stinking thinking and it's not serving you and it won't ever, So get rid of that.

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go do what's in the earn course because you're less likely to face harsh rejection or spend hours and hours and hours falling on your face in your market. And I think that you'll get like a renewed confidence and some pride in this and that'll fuel you to go back into that game of direct prospecting. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. That's why I gave you the advice I did. Thank you. Winston! How are you? Hey Chad, how you doing? Long time. See? Do you ever leave the damn beach? I mean, , Well, I live in Southern California, but I used to live on a topic, a island two years ago. So it's, it's in my blood there. But what I wanted to tell you guys real quick here, Chad, is this goes back probably six months ago and you were talking that day and encouraging us to, you know, putting our finance here together to buy some of these probate leads that we're working on some of their properties. And you were getting questions about financing and, you know, lines of credit and Helo came up in discussion and you recommended a bank that I had never, ever heard of here in Southern California. First Citizens Bank. Couple months went by. I've actually found that there was one about five minutes from my house that was brand new. They had bought out some old bank and I thought, you know, wouldn't be a bad idea to have is just in case I have an opportunity or something comes up. I just wanted to tell everybody here that if they contact for a Citizens bank, and I know they're growing all across the country, they just arrange a nice keylock for me and they didn't bury me in documentation request. It was more make sense underwriting. They did it fairly quickly and I found them to be very good to work with. So I wanted encourage that anybody's looking for a line of credit to help in their business or help buy properties, contact for citizens. I've got a great contact. They can contact me and I'll introduce them. They do 'em back east outta North Carolina, but they're great to work with and I, I got a good number for 'em. Yeah. Well thanks for that validation. I, you know, I'm, I'm not one to ever promote big banks. I really love community banks, but what I love about them is they now have, last time I looked at their, their financials 111 billion on a balance sheet, but they still act like a community bank. And the last loan I did with them was a, a home improvement loan uncollateralized. I think it was a one, I didn't even, there wasn't even an application. I filled out a personal financial statement. It cleared, I think they charged me $75 was, was the fee. And it was 3.49% on eight year amortization, 50,000 bucks, no questions asked. Like, like not even recorded on the real estate. And I'm like, You're giving money away at that? Hell yeah, I'll take it. And then on the helos, if you have over. First citizens, if you're listening, I hope my memory serves me. I think it's over a seven 50 credit score. You can go to an 89.9 ltv and that's typically at Prime plus Prime plus a quarter, I believe is the terms. And it's a, uh, 10 year, 15 year as, so 10 years to actually draw on the line, 15 to repay it. Phenomenal line of like home equity line of credit, one of the best available in the country. And they usually do best cop appraisals and they can approve you within a day or two. And just like Winston said, it's no bs. I mean, a lot of people out here complain. I've been trying to get a HeLOCK done for weeks or months and I. Hell, it takes minutes with First Citizens and they'll do almost a 90 ltv, so pretty hard to beat, uh, on home lending and also on the business side. I've, I've told this story a lot, but there's some new phases here. I mean, with this entity in particular, that Magna Opus project, I, in three weeks, sold a company, bought a, or started a company, rented the house, moved into an rv, and I just breezed in with an EIN number that was about 15 minutes old. Moved, I seated the company with 20,000 bucks, got a$75,000 credit card, and uh, uh,$50,000, uh, $49,900 business line of credit, and was out in less than a half hour. Brand new company. No credit history, nothing. And there's lots and lots of people on YouTube that'll tell you, you can't do that. You have to establish business credit. What you have to establish is a banking relationship. And understand putting money into a deposited account because of the beautiful world of fractional reserve banking, you're giving them nine to one leverage on your money interest free. So if you put 20 grand down, they can loan 10 200,000. So to put 20 grand down and ask for 50 back is really not asking for much. They're in the business of loaning money and they don't actually have to pay for their. It's for the most part, so don't, like, don't feel like you're, you're unfinanceable until you've actually gone into a bank like this and put some money on the deposit and asked for a relationship on the commercial side of the bank. You'll be surprised. So I'm glad you did that once and that's awesome. Well, when Little tidbit here as well. Chad on Helo. Again, they were very, very minimal on cost. But the one big tip I can give you guys is that they don't do a tri merge credit report. They only look at your Equifax. So make sure that thing as strong, like Chad said, get it up into the seventh as high as you can. It'll get you a better deal. Yep. Larry had a question, Does, does First Citizens do Dscr? So that's debt service coverage ratio, and they will look at on the commercial side? Yes. They do portfolio loans. So if as long, I think their current requirements is 1.3 dscr on, on a commercial, on the commercial side, and that, if I remember right, I haven't done one in a bit, but you need two months of, of rent roll, uh, is all they need to, to prove your debt service coverage ratio. All right. Well guys, this has been a fun call. It's fun to come back and guest every once in a while. Thanks for having me! Love seeing people who have been here for years, coming back and still engaged in the community and the new faces too. So Kim, thanks for being here. Let's make it a habit. Turn that camera on and let us know how things are going. You took a big step today. We're proud of you. But thank you guys so much for this love being a part of it. Uh, and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Chad.