Learn unconventional marketing strategies for finding unconventional clients and unconventional investments in real estate.
Full show notes: https://probatemastery.com/how-to-get-ultra-high-net-worth-clients-celebrity-clients-deal-with-unresponsive-probate-attorney-podcast
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rfdzMtoRHVY
Facebook Group: Estate Professionals Mastermind: https://facebook.com/groups/estateprofessionalsmastermind
FREE PROBATE REAL ESTATE WEBINAR: REGISTER FREE: https://probatemastery.com/probate-fast-track-webinar/
**You'll receive probate marketing cheat sheet, step-by-step guide to get started in probate real estate, and a core knowledge workbook to help you learn your local probate process.
Timestamps (Links to YouTube)
0:00 Should you make vendor referrals services a commissionable transaction?
4:13 Life Insurance Policy Writer to your referral network
5:13 How to get ultra-high-net worth clients in real estate
9:12 Starting an investment club
14:00 How to get celebrity real estate clients
15:50 How to get started in a brand new market: Kris is moving to Idaho!
19:36 Real Estate Podcasts: Cash Advance Lenders and ISA Call Center vendor interviews
22:49 What to do about an unresponsive attorney with a pending notice of default?
33:10 How to attract B2B referrals from senior downsizing services with an inbound marketing strategy
38:22 Navigating a probate property sale with pending foreclosure
Learn more at www.probatemastery.com
Welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery group coaching call. I'm coming to you from one of my probate houses that I picked up in 2011 Roanoke. We were talking just before we got started. I just passed my one year anniversary of living in the fifth wheel. You guys are used to seeing me in that environment, anyone who's new to the community anyways I'll start this week with something that came up on last week's call we talked about how to, quickly come up with revenue if you're struggling getting any strategy started. But I shared with you I promised you an outline of a way to build a real cash buyers list really quickly so you can get revenue inside of 30 days. Uh, We actually overachieved a little bit. We turned that into a nice handout and a cat even made a post. So Katt if you could drop a link just for anyone who might not have seen them, something that just come out of last week conversation that I think is valuable to whether you're an investor or in brokerage. It's a handful of unconventional ways that I was able to connect with really qualified capitalized buyers. So if you didn't get it, get that downloaded. And Alison you are first up today. Thank you so much. Okay. I'm new. And so I have like a business question. So you have a team of say movers and estate people who come in and sell, just everybody that's going to help you with the family. Right. When you're working with these people, are you getting a percentage of the money they're making from the family? Like how do you, or do you just connect them to the family? Organize the process of everything, right. Have you made it through session two of the course? That session has a lot, like we look at crafting your offer, building your team, building a referral network. It's a lot jammed into one. So I would encourage you to go back to that where we talk about it and I show you the mind map and we go through building the team. Something else, cat, if you want to drop the link to the we've updated that there's a handout that kind of helps you with ideas of how to find these people. What you ask is a common question. A lot of people think I got to find a way to make this worth their while! The reality is the team that we're building, they're small business owners too, right? So all we have to do is provide value to them. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to provide cash value to them, just qualified referrals that they can monetize. I don't recommend, chasing commissions. If you make it a commissionable referral, then who follows up on that? Who holds them accountable? Who does the accounting, how does it come through your books? I wanted to have presence of having a vertically integrated solution. So I put all these people on my team. The agreement was, if you clear our bar, we'll make sure you get qualified referrals and that's enough to keep them around. And I didn't feel like I needed a commission from them as long as they were doing the job that I needed them to do on the team. That was all the payment I needed because I'll get paid through my dollar productive activity. I've made a few exceptions where I've never taken commissions from any of my vendors. I've made some exceptions where I would actually advance money to a vendor to do a service. I don't usually recommend that either because it's not necessary if you have the right partners, but I didn't really want little bits of revenue coming through my books that I had to chase and source and look up.To me, it was just:
I'll bring you qualified referrals, you bring me qualified referrals and just do the best job possible. And okay. That's what I thought. And that's what I was getting. And I really liked it because I worked for closers for a little while. I wanted to build a relationship business in this and in elder home buying and I had. Partner talked about having this lady with a partner, but she wanted to nickel and dime everybody. And I tried to tell her that's not how this part works and we can't do that. And so I just wanted to go back and check with you before I keep moving forward. Yeah. I mean, it's just more of a, like a symbiotic professional relationship. if you give them qualified referrals, then eventually they're going to give it back to you and you'll monetize it by having them do a good job at what their role in this deal. But also by getting the next deal from. I just was double checking. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah. Thanks for being here. All right. Who else? I have a quick share. I do a lot of my B2B through a private network I'm in. And I picked up a guy who works with celebrity clients, mostly. And he provides estate planning, life insurance, business, insurance, disability, insurance and he reached out to me. We had a great conversation and he started the conversation: let's see how we can mutually benefit from our relationships. So he was saying, I'm going to bring you business. And I talked to him about how I can help them do private investing through SBC and leveraging my network around the country and with their assets. And he said, he's recently written 400 million in one life insurance policy for celebrities. And he has quite a few celebrities who do want to remain private, especially in the sports. And so the sports space, so it's a great connection and I'm looking forward to, realizing some new clients from that resource. That sounds pretty amazing. Yeah. Gosh, I'm trying to think all the other ways, I mean, like what will you present to them first? Like what's the first opportunity you could bring his client base? So I actually went to his client base. I actually presented to him. That if they wanted to, because I do, residential commercial because I'm an investor that if they wanted to, they could leverage my network of investors. Like I get industrial seller leaseback deals. I get hotel conversions with the 42% IRR. I get these amazing deals because of the people I know who are pretty high level commercial and multifamily and other types of investing. And oftentimes you have people certainly here in LA, want to be private. And so I told them, I said, listen, if you have any entertainers or celebrities who want to do investing, but want to remain private, there's a way I can structure the deal to do that for them. And for me, it's really just a, small acquisition management fee. But it's a way for them to park their money. And he even said, that's something they also do is they'll help them set up LLCs so that they can park their money in places. And he needs people like me to say, Hey, Nina, what do you have where people can park their money? Perfect. So that's where my mind was going to. Here's some ideas that are actual first thing I would do is reconnect with them and say, Hey, I've had some time to think about this. I really want to co-run a private group that's extremely discreet, not searchable. It's not a closed group. It's a private group. But put yourself out there you know, have him introduce you as someone who can discretely bring real estate opportunities to them and have him co-host with you. So you can borrow his social proof and his relationship with them. And then prepare a topic that would appeal to high net worth individuals, such as hands-off real estate investing. A lot of folks that are in that income bracket, they think like they want to invest in real estate, but they think it's done like it is on HGTV and they probably own shares of REITs that have three or four layers of fees on them. Like they don't know what a 42% IRR even means. So you could create a community, an education-based community where you actually, pick a topic once a month, host a call, bring other advisors to the table, including the one who will be already co-hosting with you, but find a registered investment advisor. Does he do captive insurance? I'm not sure. I'm sure. I wouldn't doubt it. We talked about infinite banking, overfunding with universal whole life. We talked about various types of policy disability. Of course, the benefit of having that for a business. I don't know if he does that or though, so create a community where they can learn something at least once a month. And they that's the same time on a zoom call each month. You promote it in the Facebook group, have him had add his clients, make him an admin on the group so he doesn't feel like you're taking the list, but you be the voice of real estate especially in unconventional real estate and really drive home that I will bring you passive real estate opportunities, meaning that you can earn double digit returns, but you never deal with a tenant or a toilet. And I think you could actually get some traction and build a community. It's probably not going to monetize in the first 30 days, but I figure you need money next year. Right? Right. Yeah. And actually I'm, as you're saying this, I'm thinking. I think I have at least two or three deals from both multi-family investors, developers, and one of my top investors who's now moved from multi-family to doing basically industrial solar leasebacks where they buy up the property from an existing company that's been in the business many years. They're unloading the real estate at their manufacturing warehouse because it's cheaper for them from a tax position to sell it and then lease it back. And they're doing triple net on these and making a great return. And I see these on my desk. I have three right now that I can easily repurpose their presentation. To explain to those people on that group. Hey, here's a way we could set up a special purpose entity for you to participate privately in this and realize these wonderful returns. So this is amazing. Yeah. Thank you. It could evolve into is, and I want you to look up the technical definition, according to the sec of an investment club. it's a financial term, but I actually started my first investment club back in September. If you guys remember when I was doing these calls from a riverbank in Washington, I ended up forming an investment club while we were out there and like for all of last week and this week, From seven to nine, I'm actually doing exactly what I'm proposing you do. I created the platform and the forum, and then I bring in the experts and the people that I invest with, or I've used as advisors that these guys would never have access to. And they eat it up. I mean, it's, they get a ton of value from it because they, like, even though they're accredited they're, multi-millionaire young guys. They don't know what, index universal life or captive insurance or Delaware statutory trust or opportunities zones or solar ITCs like, yeah, it's an educational forum for people that I hold it. These are dear friends of mine, people that I trust, it's not a public group, but I can help you with that. I've got an operating agreement that I hammered out with a high level corporate and sec attorney. But it could actually evolve into that where you could be the manager of an investment club. And, you take a fee for service or you take an equity position in the deals, as well as the gentleman who introduced you. But yeah, providing that kind of unconventional access to unconventional information is extremely valuable to high net worth individuals. If they're not so strong, self-educated they probably don't know about the things that we're talking about. So that makes them a very sticky audience. If you show, if they show up the first time and you tell a success story about how this person invested in, it's not, I mean, a typical deal in this space is probably a three times multiplier. And high double digit RRS are very common, but understanding how to filter out the garbage, like probably in, in my opinion, I've been investing this way for about a decade, almost a decade. And I would say one in a hundred, like if one in 100 sponsored deals is a good deal. That's probably generous it. It's maybe like, okay, One in 500 are actually what I would put my reputation on to present to my club. So after underwriting thousands of these, I've got, eight different sponsors pitching to my group, but that's something I could see that you could do right now. That would monetize probably in a big way later, but it will give you something actionable where this doesn't fall through the cracks. Right. And even if the monetization of it later in terms of those larger numbers, cause you're right. It's like not every deal is truly a good deal when you're looking at it from an exit strategy standpoint, what's really the return. Why would you hold your money for that long when you could probably do something else within a year and get the same return? So there's, it's true. The, the returns on it, you have to really find the really strong deals to make it worthwhile. But with that, those relationships in and teaching them, like you said, educating them so that they're aware of what these opportunities are that builds the trust and the credibility, and the trust with me to where they're going to have something else that they want. And they're going to raise their hand, Hey, Nina, I need to sell this real estate or, so there's always opportunity before that realization of this group. Yeah. Yeah. Think about it. I mean, if they have, if they're sitting in a real estate investment they made because they thought it was a good decision. And then you show them something better. And all of a sudden they want to liquidate that asset to participate in that next that shiny object that that you introduced them to. Who's likely to broker that deal? You're likely to be brokering celebrity real estate to create liquidity event so they can actually invest in the passive investments you brought to the table and you can get paid on both. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thank you, Chad. I really appreciate it. If I do need to reach out to you for any kind of guidance on how to build that out, I will, but maybe just the email or something. Yeah. Yeah. I'm happy to, I'll help you structure it if it goes there, but I would start with something simple, like a Facebook community. And you may even like, signal groups or WhatsApp groups chat. Let's going, that's a good way to keep, keep in front of them. Like, I just use a text group cause it's all friends and family and my club, but Like I, I try to put something in front of them once a week to consider something, to look at something to think about or be excited about. And it just keeps the group engaged. So you might pair a Facebook community with a signal communication group and then, just do at least a monthly call. So there's something that you can at least archive record and distribute to them. And over time, like, once you get the first to make a move and you can interview them and say, here's where Frank started. And here's where here's the first deal that Frank did through, through this community you start to collect those stories and other people, activity attracts activity. So they're gonna want to be part of it. Wonderful. Thank you very much. Yeah. So Chad, do you get much pushback from about the Facebook group? Like the social media connect? I mean, is it is the ones that are private for me? I feel like they're private, but are they, I mean, are they the celebrities going to have a problem with that? Once they're in the group, discretion goes out the window, but I don't know a way that you could have a community without with complete anonymity. You can set the settings where nobody can see who's in the group and the group isn't searchable. There's other platforms Discord is one. There's other platforms where you can have a more private conversation that's absolutely discrete, not searchable. That might be a better idea since you're not trying to publicly build the group. You'll have people who are personally invited. As far as meeting the celebrity, go to golf tournament. I don't know hang out with Nina. Yeah. It's funny because I just, I know people in the entertainment industry who are like one of my best friends she's she was PR for bet. And you know, another client of mine, she's a producer for TV shows in Atlanta and here. So I just happen to know people in the industry. So that's part of how I'm and I was an actor in my previous life. if anything, my, my kids play football and it's not unusual to have the pro players come in and coach. but I'm just noticing that we're all getting a little bit like that, and then they're not retired, but anyway. Perfect. Thank you. A good avenue to connect with celebrities is to connect with the businesses that service celebrities. So if you go onto LinkedIn and I know LinkedIn is not the greatest thing, but if you just start relationships there that can start to expand, you can find people who do celebrity events, like event planners for celebrities, people who do PR provide personal assistance services to celebrities. That's huge. Those are the gatekeepers. The gatekeepers for celebrities are always the ones that celebrities say, find me this. They're the ones who need all those resources. So that's a good place to start. That's really smart. Yeah. Kris Wickwire, you're here now. I I see. I see. Okay., thanks. And by the way, it looks like I'm moving to. Oh, yeah, it was it was a decision that my husband and I made. We're going to sell her home and he's going to to live with my father-in-law for a little while. And I'm just going to make the jump! So excited. That's where I wanted to coach you to last week. I'm sure you could tell, like, If you're going to be there. Long-term there's no time. There's no better day than today to get started. So let's talk about that. Then you already have a friend there who's usually you mentioned last week, you have a friend in brokerage. So she's got your back. She can help you get up to speed on market knowledge. Now, as you move there, what type of neighborhood what type of market are you moving into? Is it rural, urban, suburban. It's it's a little bit of both. I mean, Bonners ferry, I don't know if you're familiar with the area. It's very close to the Canadian border. So it's in the panhandle up there. Bonners ferry is very small, but Sandpoint, which is off, just next to quarter lane is, I mean, not Cortland Ponderay is as a little denser and it's actually growing somewhat. And then you have Schweitzer mountain, which is, got some luxury and some short term rental opportunities there. All over the map. Yeah, and Sandpoint, like is a major fly fishing destination. You could make a really good living, just brokering those, luxury, proper luxury riverfront is huge there. So I think that's a really good niche. Obviously. Probate's going to come into play there too. It's you know, it's a vacation. As well. So you'll have ancillary probate there as well, where a California resident keeps an Idaho home and then they passed away. The primary might be in Los Angeles county, but the ancillary probate would be in Boise county or whatever county that is. I can't remember. It's it's Bonner county and then quarter lane has, yeah, according to all the leads, quarter lane has the, kind of the lion share of any of the probate leads, but there's only two and a boundary where I'm headed. It probably would be just worth it for me to go to the courthouse instead of paying for them. That's where your referral network comes in. I'll tell you, I mean, if you're going to stretch down the quarter lane, I actually, it was Boise. So one of the very first subscribers we had and all the leads I coached her Tammy. She said that she came to the, one of our mastermind calls was, like so excited to share. She got five listings in a week. Wow. And as we talked to her, Jim was like, that's amazing, Tammy, have you ever gotten five listings in a week? And she's like, I've never had a listing. I've only had my license for 17 days. And she literally, all she did was what I spent 15 minutes with her when she signed up and I walked her through the basics of get clear on your offer, get a USP, get letters in the mail and follow up with phone calls. And she took five listings at that point. Their medium price was in the mid, probably mid fours. Now it's probably in the mid sevens. She came back the next Thursday and she had two more. She did seven deals off of one list and seven days. And I think her GCI was somewhere, it was around$450,000 in revenue. you can, you can, probate, like you can crack into that. I don't know of anyone. That's really setting it on fire there. She grew her family and stepped out of real estate and focused on her family. So that market might be open that was in Boise, but in, in those types of markets, like you can really traction really fast, but if there's only two leads, there's no way that's gonna make sense to pay for someone for a research. I would focus on building your building, your referral network. Yeah. And just lost to learn about the area. So cool. So when is your target date? When are you moving? It looks like the end of April. We're putting the house on the market mid March. Cause the, the market's heating up there. So I don't want to miss, I don't want to miss the hunting season for sure. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm glad you got some clarity around that. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Yeah. Congrats on having the courage to do that. Most people. I keep saying one day, we're going, I'm scared to death. Don't get me wrong. It just seemed like the, it seemed like the right time we're headed that way. Anyway. Fear can be the best motivator. Yeah. All right. No, hands up. I will tell you guys, we circulated a piece of content on Friday. I did an interview with probate cash and one of the team, one of the tactics that I talk about in session two is how you can actually turn your vendors into lenders. So if you need to create mezzanine financing to get a house rehab, you can have contractors carry that invoice through all the way to the closing table. There is an easy button to it's that's, more of an advanced tactic that takes a pretty good relationship with your vendors to get them to carry invoices for 90 days. An easier way to do that is to just get the family, a cash advance that will, get liquidity in the estate so you can make the repairs or move the surviving family members. So if you didn't get that cat also just drop that in in the comments. And this week we have a few other tomorrow, I'm doing a podcast with a gentleman that owns an ISA, a call center that does ISA services. So if you're not making your own calls, then you're going to suffer the wrath of David Panell. But if you're still not making your call. Maybe we can delegate that. And so I'm trying to put, put qualified call centers in front of you guys, if it's just not getting done and it needs to be done. So that's coming up next and we have a few others. But we're going to try to put more of these people that, could be more national team members like that might fit into your team. Josh, I saw your hand come up. Yeah. Hey Chad, quick question. In that conversation you have with the ISA call center could that be something we could explore to where as a broker? I just have some agents that are terrified by picking up the phone, no matter how much you want to beat it into them, but they would be willing to pay or block out block of time or so to speak that they would pay to have that done for them. That's as much as we've had call night, we've had training, coaching all the above, and I still have some that are just scared to death to just call. And then, we're leaving money on the table. They're afraid to call their own database or are you talking just just. Hey the lead comes in. They'll call once up didn't answer and just afraid to death to call back. Hell, they're the ones that filled out the form. Yeah. So I just, I don't give up that easy, so essentially what these guys do. So this particular. The company, they set a bar at 3 million in production because they know, like they want to work with people who can handle the appointments and not tarnish their reputation. So they're making high volume, high volumes of calls with qualified ISA. So what I might, you, what may work is for you to do that at the brokerage? And you say, listen, we'll set appointments for you, but our brokerage split is this on a company set appointment versus, agents and I'm open to that. So the biggest thing I face here is being in the south, especially in Louisiana the last names are very unique. Here, you got Broussard swallows and stuff like that. I need somebody that can adapt to this area. But yeah, I would definitely be open to that. That would be. Okay we'll see that conversation's tomorrow. You'll probably see it by the end of the week or so. And we'll connect you with Andy and his company, but anyways, we'll try to keep, that I've brought up two or three things that we've done over the last couple of weeks. We're all very busy. And we work hard to try to get the right people in the community. So just wanted to remind you those are there and more coming. Gio. I see your hand. How can we help you today? Hey, Chad, a question I'm working with a current prospect and the scenario is: he is the PRS husband and the wife does not want to deal with being a PR. So he's taking the the reins on that. And my question is he's having challenges with the attorney in terms of feet, getting response, getting information. And I believe John and a couple of sessions ago mentioned that, if the potential client wants to change their attorney, they can. And so wanted to get some feedback on any advice on how to handle that. Again, the wife is an ER nurse, so she doesn't want to have anything to do with it, but she was she was assigned to be the PR. He sh he's frustrated, he's trying to get information so he can then convey to the wife and they can then convey to the heirs. There's five total. So it's a little bit disconnected in terms of the communication, and he seems to be a pretty reasonable guy, not someone that's that's creating drama with the attorneys. Again, looking for some advice on how to handle that. And they're in California, they're in California. So I am nowhere near as qualified to answer. This is John Fraker. I know the answer. He has to play this role often. Like we've had like picking up the other guys mess. What was the tipping point? If I can add is reverse mortgage, there is equity and. And there was a notice of default that was filed. He found out about it. Ask questions of the attorney. The attorney basically was not very we'll say communicative. And, I got the acknowledgement from this gentleman that lot more than the attorney and and so I didn't want him in sight. Hey, you should fire them. But at the same time I just don't want to go through it without understanding what angle to take and positioning. Hey, maybe you should change attorneys and we can get you over to John Fraker and he can represent you. Let's just start there. So refresh my memory. Who's the actual client at the law firm here. Is it the spouse? The client is, yeah, I'm dealing directly with the husband, the wife is actually the PR. Okay. As the PR actually given the questions to her attorney and they're not getting an answer or because the one thing that I get, one thing I get all the time and it's a little bit to everyone. It's husband and wife. But I explain this to all my new clients for probate trust administration. The attorney represents the executor, right. Everyone else is a non-client to me. And the state bar puts on me. And this is every attorney, due to confidentiality and so forth. So if he's not responding because the wrong person's asking the question, that's one thing. If, but if his client is emailing him communicating and she's not getting her questions answered or ignored, then you gotta make it clear that if they don't respond in a timely manner, they're gonna make a change. Got it. And it's been mostly through email and I I'm assuming that it's through his email, but he understands that and he's been the only one communicating with him. And I would assume if there was an issue with that, the attorney would have. Stated such we should have, they should absolutely have done that, but it doesn't sound like they're very good at communication. So if that's the hangup, that's one thing. If it's anything else than that, as I mentioned last time, if there's a burning fire, the reverse mortgage or foreclosure. Time is not on your side or the client's side. And if something happens to this estate's asset and it's cause the attorney dragged their feet, that attorney is going to get a nick for malpractice or a complaint at the state bar. So they need to step up. They need to, do the right thing by the time. I mean, job one find out when the, when your final date is on the foreclosure, right? Don't let the, don't let the reverse mortgage companies steal this house. All right. We have a date in one month. We have a date and two months, where are we in the process? We don't want to lose this house. I think you need to, they need to step up ratchet up the communication with the attorney there, the client, the duty is owed to them by the law firm to communicate clearly and in a timely manner. And if they make it crystal clear, we're unhappy with your level of communication, et cetera, even without firing him any attorney who's, brain is working. It gets that email from a client that they're not communicating that's they can get Nick by the state bar easily for that. That's like the number one complaint against attorneys today, date bars, they're not getting their questions answered in a timely manner. Unless guys is brain dead or has an alcohol problem or something that's riveting of him from doing his job. If he's busy, that's, people get busy, he's still have a duty to communicate. There's no business exemption. Absolutely. But in terms of, if he's in the mindset of firing him what would be the, what would be the process of, do you want to just a simple, Hey, we don't want to represent you we're hiring another attorney. Yeah. I mean, if it's in probate, there's actual forms to be filled out substitution to counsel, you have to have their new attorney law Vermont on the hook, right. Again, all that stuff in probate, the fee is always paid at the end of the transaction, right at the end of the probate process. So if the original attorney has done X amount of work, they're entitled to their fee for that piece, not all of the statutory fee, but for part of it, just for the work done. And that's olderly, that's decided by the court. So they'll get paid. Right. It sounds like either the person is, overwhelmed and we'd be happy to let go of this client because he doesn't know what to do or he's too busy or whatever, I've had some people where, you know, the attorney who got relieved, is actually no pun intended, relieved to be out of it. Right. They get paid a third of the fee for, just taking it off their plate. Right. So that does happen. But, my, my recommendation is that there's always steps to do right before then line it up first, have another law firm ready to go. More importantly, communicate to the attorney. This is, these are our concerns. Here's where we're at on the foreclosure. I'm not getting any options for me. I'm not getting any callbacks. I've set communications on these dates, no response. If I don't get my response in 48 hours or whatever, I'm switching from. Right. That's an ultimatum that, that every client has the right to do that. If they're going to lose money because this house gets stolen effectively by the reverse mortgage company and that's a law for and from, that's a huge deal. If it's just, that's three months from now, that's a year from now, or is really remote and they're not getting their communicates answered. That's one thing, right? You still have to still have a duty to communicate with the clients, but if there's a burning fire, And it's not being put out by the person in charge of putting it out. The attorney that dude has got to go right. Make it clear, put it in writing. We communicated with you. We refer to nothing on this subject. We have various very what's the word? It's a burning fire, right? We have a timeframe it's being ignored, right? The closer it gets to the deadline. If your options you have. So we I had a probate where it took me. Three four months to get the person hired as the executor. Cause they were not the person with with it. They were not the closest biological relation to the person they were up there, but they were not. So we had to go through all the dance and to get the hearing to open it. That's months out the courts are backlog, right? Reverse mortgage companies like, oh, don't worry about it long the whole time. Then they filed it at the same thing. But we also got that house sold in 30 days actually is last. We got people over there, did a bunch of work on it. Lined up, the investors got that house done. And so they filed that they had 90 days where they couldn't do a thing with it on the 90th day, they could follow to take the house and sell it in 30 days it was gone. Right. So they got their money. They're out of the picture. They couldn't stop us from doing that. We got top dollar for that property. But the closer you get to that deadline, right? Not all markets are created equal. Right? This is. Silicon valley real estate on a property that was 800 square foot house on an 8,000 square foot lot. And Gavin Newson just on the law. I think it was last year allowing that to be turned into two parcels. Right. So that's a huge deal for people to look at that. I mean, there's multifamily across. So when people can look at that property and so we got a really top cash offer, but if your property is not in that market, if it's not in that type of situation, the further it goes to the foreclosure, the more rights you're losing. So there's really no, there's really no excuse for this delay on the attorney's part. You just gotta be clear. Part of your responsibility, like, to do your best job, go pull them, pull the notice of default and see if they're just to see if it's just a notice of default or if there's actually a scheduled sale date. But like, before you call your client back, you can go do that research and say, listen, this guy is acting as your fiduciary or should be acting as your fiduciary. Did you know that. And coach them through that ultimatum. The other thing is I would, I hope you have an attorney, and trust that you can sub in, like, do you know who you would point them to? I do. Yeah. I have a couple. Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is a great referral. I mean, so it'll just reinforce that relationship, but, give them 20 give this the current, give them 24 hours and then make the switch. Great. Thank you, Chad. Yep. Is the property listed? They have the letters already. It is. They just got the letters and the property isn't listed. I just had the conversation last night and I was looking forward to the call to get advisement on how to go. So after the call, I'll be doing my nod research. He was supposed to send me the copy of it, but I haven't received it yet. So I'll do the, I'll pull it and see what it says. Yeah it sounds like you have a short fuse, but long enough that you can get it done in this park. Absolutely. In San Diego, it's not going to be a problem. Right. Thank you, Jen. Thanks to you. Thank you, John Nina. I see your hand Lynette, I guess his first. So I have a quick question about what we were just talking about. Then I have another question. When over reverse mortgage, it goes into foreclosure. It is an FH a note, as I understand it is there a guideline to the Mortgage company about the fees they can charge once it goes into foreclosure, because it's just, to me, it's just an equity eater. And I mean, it also seems a little carp launch. If there isn't some sort of structure around that and it also occurs to me, like they could charge whatever they want and get it. So they're not always FHA loans. They can be, but that, so if you want to research it, look up H E C M. HECM loans or, reverse mortgages. It's gonna depend on like, who the originator was like, what their internal policies are. I don't know that there's any law on penalties they can charge. I mean, the law is going to say most of them will I take in clock starts the second that they, the mortgagor vacates the property as a principal residence, whether it's for illness or death, like if they don't live there, that clock can start. As soon as the lender knows that they don't live there any longer. So it's usually 180 days before they can move to recover. It's not usually chock full of fees because they're just getting the equity out of the property. But. You can research those, but looking up HECM loans, HECM mortgages and more specifically in your state and look at. Okay. Okay. So then my question was with my buyer clients, I've I'm in the Denver market and I don't know what's happening. It's it's a bit fierce for buyers. It's. I almost can't stomach it from the agency side. Like what's having to what I'm having to do to just get the opportunity for them to be under contract. And we have the conversation before we go shopping. But what I'm finding is there are many properties where the elderly homeowner is being transitioned to either assisted living or memory care and how is there a way to get visibility on, who and where at, where this demographic is? And, if there's a way to reach out to the family members or something like that, do it like. Ultimately it's like, okay. Get to them before they die. Maybe. So they have the access to the, taking care of their family members. You know how second I thought of assisted living facilities and things like that. Maybe the attorney pool, but that's assuming that they've reached out to someone that would put it into trust or there's two approaches here. One is your referral network. So as we talked about, toward the end of session two, it's important that you build relationships with. Probate and estate planning attorneys, but it can be equally or even more important for inbound business for you and your attorney to have a connections with social workers, care managers program coordinators, marketing directors at nursing homes, anyone who would have be having the conversation with that family before they said, oh shit, we have to sell mom's house. So who did they speak with before? Registered investment advisors, people, their CPA anyone who would be dealing with that family before they, before the decision to sell was made. So think about how that's how you can get upstream. A social worker oftentimes will be the one that will explain to them why they can't just go into long-term care and have Medicaid pay for it because they have assets. So find out who that person is, Go, show up with a cup with, coffee or, something build a relationship there, go to the nursing homes that you know, where you would want to be like the nicer facility to go to those and actually introduce yourself. The people whose job it is to get heads in beds. That's a base with commission job. So they have every incentive to liquidate assets as quickly as possible because the quicker they can liquid. Real estate assets, the quicker they can burn that cash is on their P and L. And when that cash runs out, then it comes from the government, right? So they have a big incentive. They have an even bigger incentive than you do to make the connection. So the idea there is just as we talked about in the course is make sure they understand your offer as well as the prospects. The nursing home employee needs to know that with one phone call, you can get properties claiming. Personal property is not being sold or thrown away, put into climate controlled storage by saying you're moving company. The senior moving company can bring to whatever property that they're going to bring into the facility. Like you can coordinate all of that. You have a team, so it's not their job to coordinate it. And the family's not procrastinating and, struggling through the logistics of that with one phone call, you can literally have them moved in and. And have the home sold in weeks and or you can have them move then and week. So as you connect with these people, just make sure they understand your USP, like who you are, what you can offer. And then the next time they think of who could help this family with the real estate needs, you'll be the only one that comes with. The other, and the longer term strategy here would be building the community. So we've talked, and this is one of those things I've got to get into a course, or at least a thorough handout, but building a Facebook community of the same people I just met. To actually provide value and attract that demographic to you. So if you have, let's say one night per week, on a Wednesday night, you have the, the Denver life transition team and you host a call and one week you have a social worker. One week you have a Medicaid, representative the next week you have an elder care attorney. The next week you have a senior moving company. The next week you have, who knows what it is. That might bring value to these folks. Like. Create the platform, bring those vendors into it, make them group admins. So they have ownership. They feel ownership in it and then hold them accountable to presenting at least once a week to keep growing the audience of the group over time. Like it will organically grow into being a community resource like where people can come and actually learn. Oh my God. When my mom was going through that, we found this Facebook group and this Lynette lady, like she had everyone, you could imagine that came and spoke. Then she archived the calls. Like we learned more there than, and you create a content archive and you never know how you might be able to monetize that in the future. Like, but if you get the, the aging, the elder population, if you get them and their families to come to your group to learn and meet, the other people out of your sphere when they have real estate needs, you're going to be the only one in Denver, as far as our concern. It's awesome. Thanks. Nina. You had something else? Yeah. I just wanted to chime in on the whole foreclosure piece and the bad attorney. Yeah, that would be nice. But here's the thing I wanted to point out. This is a little bit of a story in a current listing. I happened to be down there. Just last week on Friday for Molly maids, who was cleaning it out. After we did the trash out, I had to get into my car. to get on a phone call with a new client of mine? And while on the phone call, a guy drives up and he parks in the driveway next to the house. He gets out. He goes up to my listing and he's taking pictures and I'm thinking he's an investor. He wants to buy it. That's what they do. So I get out, I'm done with my call. I get out. Hey, can I help you? And I'm the one of the listing agents here? Oh no. I'm appraiser. I was just checking to see the house. I'm just doing a drive by, oh, I see. Oh, you're doing an appraisal. Oh, okay. He said, yeah, it's apparently it's in foreclosure. So prior to this, I'm actually, I'm also a short sales foreclosure specialist with, from NAR. And so I already knew to check title. I pulled the foreclosure nod and usually on the nod, it will show if they have a future sale date, which is by state statutes, you have 90 days on the. On the 90th day, they can record the notice of trustee sale. And it's 21 days from the recording date that it goes to the steps that Norwalk for auction. So it could go, but if you're, but the fact that the appraiser was there tells me they're ready to file that NTS and we could calculate what that date would be. Based off of what, assuming when could they record it from the 90th day. So that told me, okay, we need to get this thing sold before that date, or at least get at the very least. Having an offer accepted and opened escrow. So we can go to the trustee and say, Hey, stop this, pause it for two weeks. If we can, sometimes, these companies who service these foreclosure sales will just put their foot down. But I wanted to point that out that as much as you may have to fire the attorney, because the attorney wasn't doing their job to get this moving faster and be in communication with the foreclosure company. At least try to get the sale done before the foreclosure even happens. So you want to get it done as soon as possible so that doesn't become an issue because if that is really their only main asset, then everything is just, for not, and we've already been on this listing for a long time. If I can add what I don't want to say, delaying. They're actually trying to figure out a way to finance it so they can take over the property and they've they've come to the realization that it probably won't happen based on credit scores. So, the opportunity is wide open for us to move forward with listing it and getting them out of the danger zone of, that final date. Is it, is a final date, if they don't have the credit scores, go to an investor who has done gap funding, hers, any investor who can do private lending and, try to give them a decent incentive on what they could get, like a flat fee. They can put a claim against the probate estate for their interest. They can put the lien on the property, but they can do it for like a one year, interest only payments for 45 60 days. And it'll probably cost them less to do that, especially if they can't get approved, then trying to get a loan and all of that. So in other words, it may cost them a little bit. At least they keep the house. I would say that would be the first thing I would do, because if they're not going to keep the house that goes to foreclosure, they don't get anything. So pay the extra money to a private lender, and they have the securitization, the private lender. So that would be the first thing I would do if you don't have enough time before the foreclosure date. Yep. Duane I literally have one minute. I'm sorry. I do have a hard stop at four. So Dwayne, how can we help you? Okay. okay. First time on here as a result of just registering for the mastery course last week. Thanks for being here influenced in part by a couple other fellow realtors at eXp, Bill Gross being one of them. I'm licensed 20 years in the tri-state area, Maryland, Pennsylvania, West Virginia. A reverse mortgage broker that I know, very nice guy and very knowledgeable. His name is Jason Ike Miller, Duane do you mind connecting us? Do you think he would be willing to do a an ask the expert video so we can share him with the community? Okay. Yeah, I found interesting that the infinite banking, et cetera, that type of thing. I think I've seen a couple of YouTube as well I'm not licensed in insurance anymore, but I was at one time. That's the interesting thing about this community. We get well outside the lanes of probate. So we talk a lot about business strategy, advanced investing techniques and I'm actually considering looking at what would it looks like for us to maintain what we've done here, but actually to have more of those conversations to give you guys access to more of that. So I have a great guy on that. If, if you want me to see if I can bring somebody in on that subject as well, sure. With whole life, whole life. Yeah. The bank on yourself, infinite banking, Nelson Nash, miscellaneous type of thing. Yeah listen, I hate to run on a fella. Are you a West Virginia resident or Maryland? I'm actually outside the town of Boonesborough in Maryland. Okay. Hagerstown. Okay. I'm a West Virginia boy, saw you said that somewhere around snowshoe. Okay. I'm north of Martin for, yeah. We hope to see you next week. Thanks for showing up to be part of the community. Have a great day guys.